England vs South Africa 20 / 11 / 2021

[BPM]

Farrell and George confirmed out,

Even if he passes all the tests Marler can't rejoin the squad until Friday, so I imagine he'll be bench at most (though I don't expect him to be available)



Honestly have no idea who that is (to the extent I didn't realise you were joking and thought he was a 12)
Singleton has been poor whenever I've seen him - darts are some of the worst in the league

Do we have a big Gloucester fan in the coaching set up or something?

When did you last see him play? I thought he was a real prospect at Worcester and while the move to Saracens was a disaster, since going to Gloucester he's come back really well IMO.

In terms of facts (not just my opinion), he's thrown 65 successful lineouts so far this season which is 5th in the league behind Dolly (72), Walker (70), Creevy (69) and McGuigan (67). I'm not saying that's in any way exceptional, but his darts clearly aren't close to being 'some of the worst in the league' and he's good around the park.

Ellington is a total head scratcher though - I'd have taken any of VRR, Moon, Hepburn or Goodrick-Clarke over him. Maybe even Barrington.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

When did you last see him play? I thought he was a real prospect at Worcester and while the move to Saracens was a disaster, since going to Gloucester he's come back really well IMO.

Gloucester vs Exeter I lost count of how many 5m lineouts he screwed up - at least three in the first half alone
Maybe it's a pressure thing rather than a technique thing, but I saw enough to know I wouldn't trust him for England - especially coupled with how poor he was at Saracens
I mean damn, based on your stats why isn't McGuigan there? I rate him massively

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Move the boks about...make them run their lardy A$$es

Thing is successive teams have claimed this is their aim but SA don't seem to be noticeably struggling towards the end of the game. I don't think we can rely on tiring them out, especially with their ability to repeatedly slow the game down with "injuries", shoelaces, lethargic water carriers, scrum resets etc etc.

 

[Lé Ddanno]

lethargic water carriers

I'd struggle to get around at all if my head was that fat tbh

 

[Geordie]

Gloucester vs Exeter I lost count of how many 5m lineouts he screwed up - at least three in the first half alone
Maybe it's a pressure thing rather than a technique thing, but I saw enough to know I wouldn't trust him for England - especially coupled with how poor he was at Saracens
I mean damn, based on your stats why isn't McGuigan there? I rate him massively

McGuigan is class. Rumours he's away to Munster in the summer and eligible for Ireland....

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Move the boks about...make them run their lardy A$$es

Not seeing much lard on them tbf

 

[Geordie]

Not seeing much lard on them tbf

Aye fair point

 

[Teddington Logic]

preparing for the out of season testing?

 

[Wasps92]

Not seeing much lard on them tbf

I've never felt like less of a man.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Not seeing much lard on them tbf

Jesse Kriel is juicier than whatever your mum orders at a beach bar.

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

Jesse Kriel is juicier than whatever your mum orders at a beach bar.

I call smell the tren from here

 

[Reiser99]

Uhhh not gonna lie I think a 10 not having trained and not knowing the plays is a pretty good reason for them not to start.

So instead start a FB who has barely played FH at club level and who ended up at centre more? If he had brought in Ford and started him fine, but Furbank and his reasoning was just crap.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

So I expect we'll see a line up from us either today or tomorrow. Lately we've been putting it out very early. Almost feels like laying down the gauntlet. I wish we'd see the same at lower levels for picking fantasy line ups.

Win this one and we end the year at #1 no matter other results. Not that our boys will need any added motivation I'd expect. We always lift it for England and NZ.

 

[spartan32]

This is going to be an interesting one, and I think England come in as the dark horses. We all know what the Boks are going to do, how they will do it, and who will do what. Muscle, kicks and counters. England on the other hand have so many more potential options, and some young talent who really can move those big Bok units around and tire them out.

Someone mentioned Radwan on the bench. Why? Start the fella. Fight fire with fire on the wing. Lighting pace and low centre of gravity, just like Kolbe.

Front row concerns are valid, but on the other hand SA have no idea what to expect from the new boys, and of there is a struggle at scrum time get it back to 9 and away sharpish and don't give them time to compete.

Faz seems defo injured so Smith starts, which should lead to Manu 12 Slade 13, which pleases me. Use Manu to fix the defence, turn the shoulders in, then round the back with the pace of May and Radwan. We will miss the leadership though and for that reason you need Laws on the field as skipper IMO.

I think this is a great opportunity for England to play a different brand of rugger, change it up a bit and maybe even run the ball.

Not fussed about the score really, just want a solid performance and Jones to give some of these lads a decent shot. That being said I still believe we can win.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

I'm struggling to see what we have learned from these games that we didn't already know and struggling to see what's Jones actually wanted.

With this, I expect to see more stupid selection choices and even though we look better with a balanced back row and back line o expect to see one stupid out of position player as Jones loves to think he's progressive when he's just run out of ideas.

 

[BPM]

This is going to be an interesting one, and I think England come in as the dark horses. We all know what the Boks are going to do, how they will do it, and who will do what. Muscle, kicks and counters. England on the other hand have so many more potential options, and some young talent who really can move those big Bok units around and tire them out.

Someone mentioned Radwan on the bench. Why? Start the fella. Fight fire with fire on the wing. Lighting pace and low centre of gravity, just like Kolbe.

Front row concerns are valid, but on the other hand SA have no idea what to expect from the new boys, and of there is a struggle at scrum time get it back to 9 and away sharpish and don't give them time to compete.

Faz seems defo injured so Smith starts, which should lead to Manu 12 Slade 13, which pleases me. Use Manu to fix the defence, turn the shoulders in, then round the back with the pace of May and Radwan. We will miss the leadership though and for that reason you need Laws on the field as skipper IMO.

I think this is a great opportunity for England to play a different brand of rugger, change it up a bit and maybe even run the ball.

Not fussed about the score really, just want a solid performance and Jones to give some of these lads a decent shot. That being said I still believe we can win.

I hate the word 'rugger' but otherwise I agree.

By necessity rather than design we're likely to see something close to the lineup virtually all of us want to see in the backs. If it clicks and leads to a win over the World Champions that has to count for something.

We kind of have nothing to lose. No Genge, George or Farrell and possibly no Marler reduces the expectation significantly. If we lose, there's a ready made (and pretty valid excuse), but if we win, it's a massive result that might lead to some positive changes.

Obviously, you could say that there were mistakes in the initial selection, but had Mako and Ford been in the squad, we'd still have been very concerned about Mako against the SA tightheads and would have wanted Smith to get his chance (probably at the expense of Ford).

 

[ncurd]

and would have wanted Smith to get his chance (probably at the expense of Ford).

Eh I said after the AI and Lions we should have have dropped Farrell not Ford and have Ford starting for experience with a view to give Smith significant time in the second half.

Part of that is what has happened here Smith is finally being given a back line (minus Youngs) that he can utilise but we're playing the current world champions. That too much of a step up for just about everyone. We also have a front row issue and I'll be amazed if we have a balanced back row. Again against the world champions. So we have likely beaten pack which no fly half performs well behind.

We then lose and everyone says it's proof we need Farrell as Smith was unable to perform.

 

[WaterboySA]

I think this England back line could do some damage. With Manu next to Smith, that small gap in space that Smith creates could make things difficult for us.

 

[Jakedood]

Thing is successive teams have claimed this is their aim but SA don't seem to be noticeably struggling towards the end of the game. I don't think we can rely on tiring them out, especially with their ability to repeatedly slow the game down with "injuries", shoelaces, lethargic water carriers, scrum resets etc etc.

I think one very interesting thing I noticed was Pearce in AB v Ire noticeably making the effort to keep the game flowing as best he could in final 10. If it wasn't an HIA, play on, get the water bottles off. Was refreshing to see
V the Lions in 3rd test (ie uptempo with Russell) they were but they slowed the game enough to marginalise the impact
It is possible, but the biggest thing is whether you can keep your own attack tempo and structure high. For example, a few times at the weekend, I saw Youngs pick the ball up then stop because players weren't where he expected them to be, but I could see the effort to get the ball away faster. This, plus a real limit on handling errors will be key, so accuracy all over the park.
How nice is it for England to play SA with Freddie Steward under the high ball mind

 

[Which Tyler]

So I expect we'll see a line up from us either today or tomorrow. Lately we've been putting it out very early. Almost feels like laying down the gauntlet. I wish we'd see the same at lower levels for picking fantasy line ups.

Win this one and we end the year at #1 no matter other results. Not that our boys will need any added motivation I'd expect. We always lift it for England and NZ.

The Raeburn Shield is up for grabs.
How much more motivation could any team want?