England XV vs Barbarians (02/06/2019)

Discussion in 'International Test Matches' started by TRF_Olyy, May 27, 2019.

  1. TRF_Olyy

    TRF_Olyy English Arrogance

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    England XV vs Barbarians
    Twickenham Stadium
    June 2nd, 15:30​
     
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  3. TRF_Olyy

    TRF_Olyy English Arrogance

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    Barbarians squad
    Forwards
    Joe Marler (Harlequins & England)
    Pierre Schoeman (Edinburgh)
    John Afoa (Bristol Bears & New Zealand)
    Finlay Bealham (Connacht & Ireland)
    David Heffernan (Connacht & Ireland)
    Richard Hibbard (Dragons & Wales)
    James Horwill (Harlequins & Australia)
    Chris Vui (Bristol Bears & Samoa)
    Steven Luatua (Bristol Bears & New Zealand)
    Facundo Isa (Toulon & Argentina)
    Liam Messam (Toulon & New Zealand)
    Viliame Mata (Edinburgh & Fiji)
    Francois Louw (Bath & South Africa)

    Backs
    Rhys Webb (Toulon & Wales)
    Rhodri Williams (Dragons & Wales)
    Colin Slade (Pau & New Zealand)
    Brock James (Bordeaux Begles)
    Mark Atkinson (Gloucester)
    Malakai Fekitoa (Toulon & New Zealand)
    Filipo Nakosi (Toulon)
    Taqele Naiyaravoro (Northampton Saints & Australia)
    Niyi Adeolokun (Connacht & Ireland)
    Charles Piutau (Bristol Bears & New Zealand)
     
  4. noah_jo

    noah_jo First XV

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    Happy to see Marchant, Dobmdrandt and Smith all included
     
  5. TRF_Olyy

    TRF_Olyy English Arrogance

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    England XV squad

    Forwards
    Josh Beaumont (Sale Sharks)
    Ben Curry (Sale Sharks)
    Alex Dombrandt (Harlequins)
    Tom Dunn (Bath Rugby)
    Tom Ellis (Bath Rugby)
    Ross Harrison (Sale Sharks)
    Teimana Harrison (Northampton Saints)
    Paul Hill (Northampton Saints)
    Beno Obano (Bath Rugby)
    Ehren Painter (Northampton Saints)
    Will Spencer (Leicester Tigers)
    Elliott Stooke (Bath Rugby)
    Tommy Taylor (Wasps)


    Backs
    Josh Bassett (Wasps)
    Simon Hammersley (Newcastle Falcons)
    Ben Loader (London Irish)
    Joe Marchant (Harlequins)
    Alex Mitchell (Northampton Saints)
    Piers O’Conor (Bristol Bears)
    Callum Sheedy (Bristol Bears)
    Marcus Smith (Harlequins)
    Ben White (Leicester Tigers)
    Johnny Williams (Newcastle Falcons)
     
  6. TobyBeastTeague

    TobyBeastTeague First XV

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    Not a massively inspiring selection, but I guess with the limitations we couldn't have hoped for much better.
    Expecting the 23 to look something like:
    1. Obano
    2. Dunn
    3. Painter
    4. Stooke
    5. Spencer
    6. Ellis
    7. Curry
    8. Dombrandt
    9. White
    10. Smith
    11. Bassett
    12. Williams
    13. Marchant
    14. Loader
    15. Hammersley

    16. Taylor
    17. Harrison
    18. Hill
    19. Beaumont
    20. Harrison
    21. Mitchell
    22. Sheedy
    23. O'Conor

    Good to see some really young guns like Painter, White and Smith already gaining recognition but there are a lot of calls that don't make a ton of sense, namely guys like Ellis, Bassett and Hammersley. Sure, they're all good enough players but just uninspiring. At 24, 27 and 26 respectively, they're not old but they're not going to get any higher than their current ceilings. Would've far rather seen guys like Hill, Ibitoye and Malins included; guys who could come to be in the reckoning for 1st XV honours in the not too distant future.
     
  7. ragerancher

    ragerancher First XV

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    Disagree with Ellis, I think he has a fair bit of potential. I don't think he will be a first choice England starter but I don't think it would be much of a stretch to see him as a reasonable backup if he develops a bit more. He's pretty decent carrying.
     
  8. TobyBeastTeague

    TobyBeastTeague First XV

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    I like Ellis a lot but I just can’t see him ever getting capped. Of the older generation, Wilson, Shields, Robshaw, Armand and Rhodes are all ahead of him by some distance and of the younger players I’d have thought that Underhill, Dombrandt and Mercer are ahead of him in the pecking order, while also being younger. You add Itoje, Lawes, Clifford, Willis, the possibility of playing a Curry at 6 and Hill who should overtake him soon enough, and I just can’t see Ellis ever getting called upon.

    As I said, I like Ellis, but I can’t see him ever being an international.
     
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  9. BPM

    BPM First XV

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    Yeah. I tend to agree. Ellis is a good player, but probably not likely to break in to the full squad.

    We have a very impressive group of young flankers and I’m not sure Ellis is good enough to hold off a challenge from Hill, Willis, Dombrandt etc.

    Loader is clearly very highly rated within the England set-up so it’ll be interesting to see how he does back in the Premiership with London Irish (it might be a bit unfair judging him against this Barbarians side).

    Like Toby, I would have liked to see Malins.
     
  10. TobyBeastTeague

    TobyBeastTeague First XV

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    Malins is the one that really confuses me; if England have more of an eye towards winning the game rather than looking at it as an opportunity to develop potential, then I understand picking Hammersley over him at 15, but selecting Sheedy over him at 10 really doesn't make any sense.

    The only thing I can think of is that Saracens wouldn't release him, but that'd be an odd call by them seeing as he has no chance of making their 23.
     
  11. Tigs Man

    Tigs Man Hall of Fame

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    Malins will be training with Saracens all week though.
    Even if he isn't in the 23 that 23 will need to be playing against another team.
     
  12. Xsypher

    Xsypher Academy Player

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    Usually you'd be right, but with Barritt injured, Tompkins will start, meaning the 22 shirt is up for grabs. Assuming Strettle keeps #23, I'd expect Malins/Gallagher to be vying for 22.
     
  13. TobyBeastTeague

    TobyBeastTeague First XV

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    Surely whoever takes the shirt will be a centre. There’d be no point in putting Gallagher in there; Strettle covers wing and both Williams and Maitland can go to FB. Similarly with Malins, 10 and 15 are both well covered by Goode, Lozowski and the aforementioned 15 options. The only centre cover you’d have would be moving Faz to 12, but I can’t see Sarries wanting to do that. I’d expect Dominic Morris to come in; he’s been impressive when he’s played.
     
  14. Which Tyler

    Which Tyler First XV

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    Don't forget travelling reserves though, and if someone's carrying a beagle, you wouldn't want to lose the next in line just-in-case.
    There are plenty of good reasons for Sarries to not release him
     
  15. Old Hooker

    Old Hooker First XV

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    Even calling it an England XV is pushing it. Don't think the backs boast a single cap between them.

    Up front marginally better, but that Baa Baas pack is just going to be way too streetwise.

    Some points of interest in seeing how Hill, Curry B and Dombrandt go, but really its all a bit meh. Scratch side against scratch side which might make it superficially entertaining, but isn't really the point of the Baa Baas, in as much as they still have a point.

    How many tickets have been sold?
     
  16. TRF_Olyy

    TRF_Olyy English Arrogance

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    15 Simon Hammersley (Newcastle Falcons)
    14 Piers O’Conor (Bristol Bears)
    13 Joe Marchant (Harlequins)
    12 Johnny Williams (Newcastle Falcons)
    11 Josh Bassett (Wasps)
    10 Marcus Smith (Harlequins)
    9 Alex Mitchell (Northampton Saints)

    1 Ross Harrison (Sale Sharks)
    2 Tom Dunn (Bath Rugby)
    3 Ehren Painter (Northampton Saints)
    4 Elliott Stooke (Bath Rugby)
    5 Josh Beaumont (Sale Sharks) captain
    6 Alex Dombrandt (Harlequins)
    7 Ben Curry (Sale Sharks)
    8 Teimana Harrison (Northampton Saints, 5 caps)

    Finishers

    16 Tommy Taylor (Wasps, 1 cap)
    17 Beno Obano (Bath Rugby)
    18 Paul Hill (Northampton Saints, 5 caps)
    19 Will Spencer (Leicester Tigers)
    20 Tom Ellis (Bath Rugby)
    21 Ben White (Leicester Tigers)
    22 Callum Sheedy (Bristol Bears)
    23 Ben Loader (London Irish)



    We'll likely get a kicking but there's a lot of exciting players there
     
  17. TobyBeastTeague

    TobyBeastTeague First XV

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    If Nowell’s out I guess his replacement would be chosen from this squad? Could really give some of the backs (or Curry) something to play for.
     
  18. TRF_Olyy

    TRF_Olyy English Arrogance

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    Biased but Solomona is better than all the wingers in this squad. In the form of his life atm and his defence has improved beyond recognition

    If Watson is fit and ready he'll just take Nowell's spot from the 6N back three players, I imagine?

    Im too lazy to try and work out how many back three players we're gonna take :p
     
  19. TobyBeastTeague

    TobyBeastTeague First XV

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    If Solomona isn’t in this squad then I guess he’s already in the training squad which is what I meant, not the RWC squad.

    I’m guessing in terms of the 31 then Ashton will come in for Nowell, making it May, Watson, Daly, Cokonasiga and Ashton.
     
  20. ratsapprentice

    ratsapprentice Hall of Fame

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    I'd be surprised if Nowell was out.
     
  21. noah_jo

    noah_jo First XV

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    Brown maybe?

    According to care, Wilko told brown (not sure why he would know) that he was still Eddie's preferred 15 but was needing to try out other options.

    Dunno how much I believe that but hope it's true
     
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