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England’s tour to Australia thread

Old Hooker

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Curry out due to concussion.
Of the whole tour, not just the next match

So call up Earl...but he wont.
We have Willis and Underhill so don’t really need to. But watching Savea’s try at the weekend, Earl’s the only one who could do something like that, although hasn’t yet on the international stage. If his nuts and bolts have improved, he’s got to be worth another look.
 

TRF_Olyy

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Curry out due to concussion.
Such a shame, he was on fire that first half

Selflishly this is good for Sale as he won't meet the threshold for international stand down (think internationals are predicted to only play 12 prem games this season)


We have Willis and Underhill so don’t really need to. But watching Savea’s try at the weekend, Earl’s the only one who could do something like that, although hasn’t yet on the international stage. If his nuts and bolts have improved, he’s got to be worth another look.
Yeah I doubt they'll bring anyone new in, there's enough cover atm and flying them half way round the world would be disruptive for no reason
 

Duck a l'Orange

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Yeah I doubt they'll bring anyone new in, there's enough cover atm and flying them half way round the world would be disruptive for no reason
If we can't make a halfway decent back row out of Ludlam, Willis, Underhill, Vunipola, Lawes and Nowell, we probably don't deserve our player base.
 

Which Tyler

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Its alright I'll summarize for you

'hey that Jonny Hill bloke is a right **** isn't he...

yep sure is'.
Yup.
And best not to talk about the rest of the match. It now, officially, didn't happen
 

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The newer faces certainly made an impact; I don't think any of the subs had a bad game... but then the last 4 of them got less than 25 mins combined (with Chessum accounting for over half of that) so definitely too early to tell.

Ludlam was conspicuously good, although that missed tackle at the end was pretty poor.

Thought it was Will Stuart's best game that I can remember, but he was definitely gassed after the hour mark.

I reckon we'll see much the same team for the next test. Ludlam in for Curry, May back in once he's clear of COVID (probably for Coka?). Hopefully the subs get a useful amount of time next week.
 

Which Tyler

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So for next week. Drop smith and have Farrell at 10 or drop Farrell and have Dingwall at 12. Lawes to replace Hill and Ludlum at 6.

Drop coko (he is such a joke) and have the young lad.

Then change the backs and head coach, Change the tactics completely and use the subs properly.

Easy as pie.
Way too early to drop the Smith-Farrell axis.
Besides, however much people say "Eddie's just using stop-gaps until Manu is fit" - he's built his England set-up around have an ersatz 10 at IC; if Manu is fit and in form, he'd slot in at 13.

If we're breaking up Smith-Farrell, then it's either Ford-Farrell or Ford/Farrell - Slade; or we need to find another ersatz 10 to play the IC role.
Which isn't Dingwall, or Porter.


As for Coka, not sure what he's supposed to have done wrong this weekend; or why he seems to be a favourite hate-figure for England fans this summer.
He's far from a joke, everyone seems to have forgotten that he's pretty damned quick, and can do things no other contender for England can do.
He's not likely to ever become one of rugby's great thinkers - but then, nor is May (and that much was obvious by the time he was 12); but he's far, far from a joke, and anyone should be able to see why any professional coach would LOVE to get their hands on him, and any of them SHOULD have the confidence that they can turn his form around.

None of which is to say that he's in this squad on form - he's coming back from physical and mental problems, and needs to show form at club level first; but he absolutley doesn't deserve a lot of the criticism he's been getting the last few weeks.
 

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The newer faces certainly made an impact; I don't think any of the subs had a bad game... but then the last 4 of them got less than 25 mins combined (with Chessum accounting for over half of that) so definitely too early to tell.

Ludlam was conspicuously good, although that missed tackle at the end was pretty poor.


Thought it was Will Stuart's best game that I can remember, but he was definitely gassed after the hour mark.

I reckon we'll see much the same team for the next test. Ludlam in for Curry, May back in once he's clear of COVID (probably for Coka?). Hopefully the subs get a useful amount of time next week.
He looked dangerous if a little one dimensional. Be interested to see if he has a similar impact against 15 fresh.
 

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Swain facing disciplinary proceedings but Hill's not been cited for the shove to the face. Outrageous.
The push in the face may or may not have constituted striking.

Hair pulling, though, is categorically a red card offence (on the less serious end of the spectrum). I don't see how the ref can determine otherwise except that he doesn't know the rule. Low end is a two week ban: https://www.world.rugby/organisation/governance/regulations/reg-17/appendix-1.

Now - you can forgive a ref missing it in the heat of the moment. Its impossible to expect them to get them all right (my biggest issue with cards period - an impossible system to apply equitably) but the judiciary failing to cite him is a serious structural issue. There are even recent examples of bans being issued for hair pulling (Creevy, for example).

Until they start figuring this stuff out Rugby remains a second tier sport in all countries but bumfuck NZ.
 

Ragey Erasmus

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Jones' obsession with running the first 15 into the ground time and time again by not using subs is just ridiculous. It's particularly baffling how he was so good at using them when he first came on the scene with England and now acts like he wishes he wouldn't have to use any of them. He may say it's for "fitness" but that's bullshit, if he hasn't managed to turn around their fitness in 6 years then he won't now. Many injuries occur when players are tired or over-exerted too so he is compounding our existing injury problems.
 

Old Hooker

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If we can't make a halfway decent back row out of Ludlam, Willis, Underhill, Vunipola, Lawes and Nowell, we probably don't deserve our player base.
Nowell’s shot as as a flanker, Coka packed down there at least once. Probably a better line out option.

On the subject of Coka, @Which Tyler, if there has been flak flying your last para probably sums it up. I’d hoped he would have been left at home so he could have a proper rest / pre season as some first steps towards becoming the player we all hope he’ll be.

One bright spot was that Stuart largely did OK. Can’t say I noticed Heyes too much in his minute.

Rodd’s scrummaging is a work in progress. But these Aussies aren’t the biggest scrummagers and I’d have thought it would make far more sense to continue his education by giving him the bench spot over Mako. We know precisely what Mako can do and he can easily slot back in at a later date if needs be.
 

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How the **** is Eddie Jones still in a job? It’s mad really. The weird thing is, though, even if he stays I still think you’ll have a decent World Cup such is the quality in depth you have.

He should go, though. Can’t believe you didn’t go in hard for Edwards before going to France. He’d be my number 1 choice.

Moot, though as he ain’t going. Maybe if you lose the next 2 he could possibly go but I think you’ll win one test for sure.
 

Geordiefalcon

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Jeez our locks options are so average now from a few years ago.

Just hope some of the kids can come through quick...with Chessum leading the way
 

Geordiefalcon

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How the **** is Eddie Jones still in a job? It’s mad really. The weird thing is, though, even if he stays I still think you’ll have a decent World Cup such is the quality in depth you have.

He should go, though. Can’t believe you didn’t go in hard for Edwards before going to France. He’d be my number 1 choice.

Moot, though as he ain’t going. Maybe if you lose the next 2 he could possibly go but I think you’ll win one test for sure.
My problem is the coaches.

Defence coach Seibolt is generally a rugby league coach and not a very good one. Has he actually coached in Union?
Gleeson, is a rugby league coach...was Wasps his first stint in Union? What was that 2 years?

Hardly experienced successful coaches.

This is because Eddie cant keep the good coaches cos hes an idiot.
 

Ragey Erasmus

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My problem is the coaches.

Defence coach Seibolt is generally a rugby league coach and not a very good one. Has he actually coached in Union?
Gleeson, is a rugby league coach...was Wasps his first stint in Union? What was that 2 years?

Hardly experienced successful coaches.

This is because Eddie cant keep the good coaches cos hes an idiot.
This, I understand various coaches have gone on to big positions at club level but we should be replacing them with other experienced coaches. As is often said, we are on the the largest unions in the world and surely an England coaching role is an attractive one? Instead we have brought in complete nobodies and it shows. If we are incapable of being able to attract proven talent to work under Jones, that is pretty damning. Being unable to retain coaches is one thing, not even being able to attract them is another. It does point to Jones being toxic and it isn't the first role he's been in where that has been levelled at him.
 

Rinkadink

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Hair pulling, though, is categorically a red card offence
I don't see where it says what the sanction is exactly, unlike say the abuse of match officials which is X weeks.

We have precedents too, I guess;

 

Le Frére Alpha

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How the **** is Eddie Jones still in a job? It’s mad really. The weird thing is, though, even if he stays I still think you’ll have a decent World Cup such is the quality in depth you have.

He should go, though. Can’t believe you didn’t go in hard for Edwards before going to France. He’d be my number 1 choice.

Moot, though as he ain’t going. Maybe if you lose the next 2 he could possibly go but I think you’ll win one test for sure.
I was of the opinion he had enough in the bank to stay to the world cup until Saturday, and particularly when he said its harder to play against 14 men. He lauded his 14 man team as moral victors after the England Ireland game this year and he's been full of excuses for awhile now.

There's a lot of gaps in the England squad from his refusal to give young players significant minutes. Depth with no experience is dangerous. With no English teams cracking the Heineken Cup semis in the last couple years you really need to be using tier 2 and Baabaas games to give them a taste of the level. Jumping from any domestic league other than the Top14 to a tier 1 international is too much for most guys.
 

MikeTheNative

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Eddie Jones talks a load of ****, he's always been the same so I don't pay attention too much to what he says. It's on the pitch though England have just looked lacklustre. I agree that he's world cup final probably give's him the credit in the bank to have another shot. I thought Smith looked a bit aimless and chose the wrong option a number of times on the weekend. He's still relatively new to test rugby for a 10 so I expect him to improve although you would expect that Care and Farrell should be helping to run the game.
 
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