EOYT: England v New Zealand, 01/12/2012

[Draggs]

Twickenham, London (01-12-2012, 14:30 GMT)
​

Referee: George Clancy (Ireland)
Assistant referees: TBD
Television match official: TBD
​

 

[Patchey]

England's match day squad (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/20488881)

Forwards: Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers), Alex Corbisiero (London Irish), Mako Vunipola (Saracens), David Wilson (Bath); David Paice (London Irish), Tom Youngs (Leicester); Joe Launchbury (Wasps), Courtney Lawes (Northampton), Geoff Parling (Leicester); James Haskell (Wasps), Ben Morgan (Gloucester), Chris Robshaw (Harlequins, capt), Tom Wood (Northampton).
Backs: Chris Ashton (Saracens), Mike Brown (Harlequins), Alex Goode (Saracens); Brad Barritt (Saracens), Jonathan Joseph (London Irish), Manusamoa Tuilagi (Leicester), Freddie Burns (Gloucester), Owen Farrell (Saracens); Danny Care (Harlequins), Ben Youngs (Leicester).


Looks like Brown on the wing again...

 

[Teh Mite]

Looks like Brown on the wing again...

 

[Larksea]

actually really looking forward to this match, don't get to play England very often and they are the team Kiwi's love to beat. The colony showing the home nation how it's done and all that. Should be awesome.

Don't like those odds though, doesn't give England much of a show?

Would be good if Carter is fit but at the same time I really like the look of Tom Taylor, I said he was a future all black after the first ITM cup game I saw him play.

 

[Teh Mite]

Do Kiwis "love" to beat England? I was always under the impression New Zealanders really couldn't give a toss about England... Aus, SA, Wales and France being the rivalries they have real interest in.

 

[nickdnz]

actually really looking forward to this match, don't get to play England very often and they are the team Kiwi's love to beat. The colony showing the home nation how it's done and all that. Should be awesome.

Don't like those odds though, doesn't give England much of a show?

Would be good if Carter is fit but at the same time I really like the look of Tom Taylor, I said he was a future all black after the first ITM cup game I saw him play.

Really?!

I mean he's not terrible, but he's about as average a 1st 5/8th to ever be included in the AB's in my opinion. Good goal kicker but utterly poor with ball in hand and running a game. Safe is about it. He's like a poor man's David Hill...

 

[Darwin]

I don't expect too many changes to the AB's side. If Mealamu is fit he will replace Hore, otherwise Coles will get his first test start (with Elliot on the bench). Carter sounds like he is getting more likely to play by the day - if he is 100% fit I would play him, but if there is any doubt they should start Cruden again. There is some talk about fatigue kicking in for some of the top players (suggesting a need to rest several players) - if this is the case I'd be more inclined to bring the bench players on earlier, rather than 'rest' these players from the starting lineup.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Looks like Brown on the wing again...

I'm still holding out hope for Joseph on the wing. He's at least got some experience there (though I suppose Brown does now, after being shoehorned in there for England a few times, urgh).

 

[Darwin]

Really?!

I mean he's not terrible, but he's about as average a 1st 5/8th to ever be included in the AB's in my opinion. Good goal kicker but utterly poor with ball in hand and running a game. Safe is about it. He's like a poor man's David Hill...

I don't think he is quite that bad (we have has some very average first-fives in the AB's...), but I do agree he doesn't really look like an All Black. He is actually a reasonable runner in open space, but is not a threat at all running from 10, and really struggles to get his backline going. The Crusaders backline looked particularly impotent with him at 10 - it was his first full season for the Crusaders so it is hard to criticize, but I did find it rather bizarre that people were suggesting he should be in the AB's after his Super Rugby season. He does have one outstanding attribute: his goal-kicking. He is without doubt the most accurate goal-kicker in the country, which is a massive asset. That coupled with solid defense and an ok kicking game in general play make him a good Super Rugby player, but he will have to make some big improvements if he wants to earn himself an AB's cap (or hope there are a few injuries!). Not saying I wouldn't have brought him over (as I agree he is the 4th best fit 10 in the country at the moment) just his general play doesn't scream "All Black" to me.

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

Yeah Tom Taylor doesn't really look like an All Black to me - not at first five at least, maybe an Aron Mauger type second five, with someone a bit more creative inside him.

And Mite, England would definitely rank above Wales for me in terms of who I like us to beat. I don't seriously consider Wales a challenge, don't know if I ever will. That being said, I don't think England are up for much at the moment, especially with Flood as their first choice five eight (I know he'll be injured for this match though), he doesn't worry me at all with the ball in hand, and I don't think his kicking if any better than many of the other 10's going around. Everytime I've seen England play in the last few years I've always felt they're fielding a second string side when Wilkinson isn't at 10, because he's the only first five I've seen from England in a while that stands out. I'm aware he's not the player he used to be etc., but until I see someone like Wilkinson again for England, I'm not going to worry about the team. (Now let's just hope they don't prove me wrong this weekend!).

 

[Gavin]

actually really looking forward to this match, don't get to play England very often and they are the team Kiwi's love to beat. The colony showing the home nation how it's done and all that. Should be awesome.

Don't like those odds though, doesn't give England much of a show?

Would be good if Carter is fit but at the same time I really like the look of Tom Taylor, I said he was a future all black after the first ITM cup game I saw him play.

Don't you mean the Pacific Islands?

 

[Taranus]

Would like to see Tuilagi at 12 and Joseph at 13 for England, should have a bit more attacking threat then having Barritt in there but will depend on whether Farrell gets the ball out to them. Would like to see Burns get a bit of time.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Would like to see Tuilagi at 12 and Joseph at 13 for England, should have a bit more attacking threat then having Barritt in there but will depend on whether Farrell gets the ball out to them. Would like to see Burns get a bit of time.

Same here, I just really don't want Brown on the wing :lol:

 

[McTallshort]

Good to see Lawes back in the match day team with Launchbury and Parling it makes for a tidy trio competing for the 2nd row slots. Really like Robshaw but cannot help but feel if Croft was fit then he would join Wood and Morgan in the backrow.

Not sure about Manu at 12 like I said in an earlier thread I dont think his passing is good enough at this level.

 

[kovana]

I still see a comfortable AB win to be honest.

 

[Helmy]

Don't you mean the Pacific Islands?

View attachment 2020

England only have Manu Tuilagi and Mako Vunipola in the team, I'd hardly call it the 'Pacific Islands'...

 

[j'nuh]

Gloucester had a fans forum tonight. People on shedweb saying that Nigel Davies said that Freddie Burns texted him asking whether he could play for Gloucester on sunday if he gets less than 20 minutes for England on saturday. Fantastic commitment. I can see now why his game seems to be improving with every week.

 

[Surefire]

Winning four away test matches in a row is no easy feat. Towards the end of a tour, I am sure it is hard to keep focus up and motivation. If any team could do it, its certainly the ABs. (they already won 17? in a row)
England could have an advantage emotionally as they play at home and try to finish the internationals on a high note. Both of these teams have a reputation to be professional/stubborn, so I can't picture either not having their head in the match. This could be a lot closer than most think, maybe the match of month.
I guess I should put my Vcash where my mouth is.

 

[Larksea]

Really?!

I mean he's not terrible, but he's about as average a 1st 5/8th to ever be included in the AB's in my opinion. Good goal kicker but utterly poor with ball in hand and running a game. Safe is about it. He's like a poor man's David Hill...

Average compared to carter maybe but not average compared to every other 10 in world rugby. I think the problem Most Kiwis have is that for the All Blacks anyway we are so used to watching carter he has become the benchmark. When he may very well be the most complete player to play in any backline position in the history of the game. basically anyone compared to him is pretty "average".

I know it's my favorite thing to compare everything to Cruden these days but consider this - Cruden had a very good game last weekend. But did he do anything in that game that Tom Taylor is not more than capable of doing? I honestly don't believe so, he really just did the basics well, kicked all the goals and defended ok, Taylor is more than capable of that, he may lack a bit of the x-factor cruden can have on attack at times and he doesn't have the level of experience and vision Cruden has but every other aspect of his game is just as good and some areas I would say are stronger. He'd also be a great addition on the bench as well considering he can play 10, 12 or 15.

IMO tom taylor is anything but average, he has I think the most consistent goal kicking I have seen over his first class carrier he's super reliable and at ITM cup and Super level he has been a match winner at times. I guess I shouldn't like him because I'm meant to be bias towards Waikato players?

Really I just hate Andy Elis

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

Taylor's a very similar player to Barnes. While I don't think he'd make many mistakes for the AB's, I don't think he's significantly improve their performance at all.