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EOYT: England v New Zealand, 01/12/2012

I think we were crap...but i think Engand made us play crap, rush defence, low error rate and some explosive attack...job done. It was exactly the smae as pretty much every time we've been kicked out of a world cup, the other team wanted it more and we had no plan B, we just kept trying to do the same thing over and over and over which england just found it easier and easier to read

Also

We were beaten hands down at the breakdown. England showed more commitment and committed more numbers than we did

We were also out-mauled and out scrummaged and were barely able to hold our own at the line-out.

The All Blacks missed 22 tackles, gave up 13 turnovers and allowed England 8 line breaks. That is a whole series worth of errors in one match

However, another thing that has to be realised is that England simply had to play the way they did, running the ball and committing numbers; they had no choice. If there is anything that the last 9 years of mostly hidings at the hands of the All Blacks should have taught them is they will NEVER beat the All Blacks by playing a forward oriented game of "hide the pill" interspersed with bouts of aimless kicking. It might have worked 10 years ago, it won't work now, and I think the England staff finally understand that.
 
I generally feel that when a team plays crap it has, to a very large extent, something to do with the opposition playing at a much higher intensity. I get highly irritated when SA wins and people say that its because of the errors the opposition made. That's what we do! We put opposition under pressure. So I'm giving England the benefit of the doubt here and believing that they caught an understadably complacent (even if only subconciously complacent) and unfortunately disrupted (through illness) AB side off guard and were able to back the initial surprise up with sustained intensity and accuraccy. IE they were the better side on the day and that's about the long and short of it.
 
Everyone knew it would take a special performance from England and a subpar performance from the All Blacks for them to win and that's what happened. Teams need to play like that consistently if they're going to beat the All Blacks. Unfortunately it never lasts.


Excuse the spelling mistakes.. RUNNING & GUNNING!!!
 
As my post on Friday on prediction of the game said, England need to play the street-fighting game and suffocate the AB of the ball and pressure them into mistakes but rushing them when they have the ball. It worked a treat too, they also committed to the breakdown gave McCaw nothing to work from. The doggedness of the side and commitment was great to see. Never gave ABs any space to flow.
Here's my rating:

Alex Goode: Intelligent game and positional play defesilvely was spot on, never gave the AB any inviting gaps to run down , can tell the Backs coaches have been working on the positional play across the back line. What he offers is overall more then Ben Foden. But what he lacks is the outright pace that Foden has. I think he will keep his place in 6N gives us to many positives. 7/10

Chris Ashton: A couple of missed tackles but his running lines top draw! His positional and support play looking for the ball will mean he will always be a threat. Opposition find it difficult yo pin him as he goes looking for the ball and has energy to do his usual job defensively. People underestimate how good engine Ashton actually has he covers a lot of ground in a match. Great try. 8

Manu Tuilagi: Some great interceptions reading from the best passers of the ball. We saw this early in the tests but it came right against the AB. The issue is that opposition know that they need to have 2/3 ppl to bring him down. When he had the ball AB tactics (and other teams) is to close him in numbers QUICK, problem is Manu has learnt this too and finds gaps now to run rather then concentrating to "bash and go into contact" Carter/McCaw got caught out due to the power running. Very good try and setting up Barrit. Defensively positional play not as good as Barrit but that's why Lancaster likes the centre pairing they complement each other (ish). Good overall display. 9

Brad Barritt: People just don't realise how good and englands defence is made so good its down to the organisation and tackling/positional play of Barrit. Normal armchair observers keep banging on about he offers nothing in attack but he offers so much in Defence Lancaster will not drop him (he is asked to do that role) He showed with the ball and freedom he is REALLY QUICK, people don't realise Barrit is actually very fast. 8

Mike Brown: Great gritty play, never accepts he is tackled just grits his teeth and sucks up the pain and drives some extra yards. Very determined, he out of position and it shows at times but he is good enough at this level but maybe not in the position he is forced to play. Did his part in Attack and defence cannot fault him for that. 7

Owen Farrell: We talk about players who have that rare ability to raise their game and have that special ability/temperament to perform at their best under pressure this is Owen Farrell. Magestic first half and then he proved he could organise an attack. His kind of game, great tackling ability too. What if Farrell started against SA? Those 2 kicks flood missed? With Farrell he is just more reliable when kicking: 9

Ben Youngs: hmmm no other player (other then Botha) devides such opintion. Messed some box kicks but run the forwards well and was also on the look out to attack towards the end of the game. Still needs more consistency through the game, has some moments of brilliance then some really poor moments in the same game! 7

Alex Corbisiero: How important he is to the scrum we seem to be better when he plays. Had world class Owen Franks in trouble on occasions and is clearly a man who Lancaster has as a dead cert for the future with Cole. Led to penalty for being "lazy" and trying to get out of the way, needs to iron that out. Great effort considering he hasn't played much gave his all and was blowing hard with the sheer tackling/scrummaging effort he put in. 8

Tom Youngs: Another solid effort, cannot fault the commitment. Fantastic ball carrier, went for easier throws and Parling again helped him through it and kept it simple and instructions precise. Great tackling and his low centre of gravity enables him to dodge forwards tackles and makes more ground then others. Hartley does everything Youngs can do (some better) but more importantly he is better in the lineout throwing just because of his experience at a higher level for England. 7

Dan Cole: Another commanding display, scrummaging world class, and fantastic in the loose won a fantastic Turnover. His performance and consistency will make England a devastating scrummaging side. A sure Lions bet. 9

Joe Launchbury: What a performance! When you want to see what great players are made of you want to see them raise their game against the best. Joe did it. Unbelievable. first half, work rate, tackling, lineout, carrying - fantastic. A real find, he can only get better him and Parling gave the backs a fantastic platform. He was asked to play the street fighting game and that's what he did gave the AB no rest and kept in their faces. Made most tackles in game. How can you keep him out when he performs like this if Lawes is fit? 9

Geoff Parling: Another great performance. When you need Parling to perform he delivers. I am yet to see him have a poor game? I really love this guy I was wiry of him last year if he was good enough but considering he represented England at all age groups its not surprising he gets to the top is it? Another street fighting game from Parling, scraps/digs in deep and has unbelievable workrate. Him and JL caused to much problems for ABs. Again fantastic in the lineout, he got the boys working like clockwork. 8

Tom Wood: When you need a gritty dog-fighting game plan you can rely on Tom wood to bring the HEAT to the opposition. The aggression at the breakdown, the strong tackling made him a real handful. He is back to his best. His (and robshaws) intelligence in the breakdown nullified McCaw. Great work-rate and offered himself in attack. Great defensive positioning gave his opposite 6/7 little room to make any opportunities. Can't see anyone taking his spot for the 6N, only injury. 9

Chris Robshaw: When you need your captain to put in a majestic performance he does it –week in week out. NOBODY can criticise his commitment, determination and sheer will to win. Nullified McCaw using Wood and was always the "go-to" man when we need someone to carry. His workrate to get into positions and defend is just fantastic. 9

Ben Morgan: Had a good game ran well, but opposition did their work on him so closed him quick. Was again a "go-to" man to carry ball into contact areas and played well. Looks a bit vulnerable defensively due to his inexperience/positional play and reading danger but hopefully that come in time. 7
 
Agree with mstar - it's going to be really interesting to see who Lancaster goes for in some positions in the 6N.
eg
Fullback - difficult to drop Goode after his performances this Autumn. The trouble is, I assume Foden is coming back for the 6N. Tricky.
Lock - 3 superb locks in Launchbury, Lawes and Parling. Each offers great qualities and it'll be interesting to see what the 1st choice combo will be come 6N time.
Flyhalf - As much as we love to hate Farrell Jr, he had a great game on Saturday. Flood didn't look too bad in the other games and Burns looks like he has real ability to get a back line going.

Should be interesting...
 
I was wondering whether Farrell could possibly play at 12 for England and what you guys would think about that (not that Barritt played badly on the weekend mind you).

Also, isn't Brown also a fullback? I think he has played superbly the chances he has gotten. Would he presumably stay on at 14 or even possibly get a chance at 15? Are there other wingers pushing Ashton and Brown?
 
anyone picked up on the England offsides ? think there were like 50...
 
I was wondering whether Farrell could possibly play at 12 for England and what you guys would think about that (not that Barritt played badly on the weekend mind you).

Also, isn't Brown also a fullback? I think he has played superbly the chances he has gotten. Would he presumably stay on at 14 or even possibly get a chance at 15? Are there other wingers pushing Ashton and Brown?
Farrells played a lot at 12 for his club, and a little for.England in the Six Nations but he's not very good there. He's okay cover from the bench but I'd never start him there.

I think Foden will come in for Brown, who will go to the bench in place of Joseph, unfortunately. There are other wingers around, but I don't think they'll get much of a look in as this combo is working....adequately. Browns played well as a player, but his positioning etc. Isn't great as a winger, which is understandable as he's not one!
I also thing Launchbury and Parling will keep their shirts, with Launch and Lawes rotating.

Will be interesting to see the. hanged.made to the squad for the Six Nations, as the EPS couldn't be modified for the AIs but Lancaster can make some changes for the Six Nations. Presumable most will be making thr injure switches permanent (e.g. Launchbury promoted from the Saxons properly).


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Agree our Locks position is difficult Launchbury and Lawes seem to be fighting for 1 slot. However, Lancaster is a big fan of lawes (judging by his reactions when he watched him this year and his comments "he is the most powerful tackling/defensive player in the premiership a real asset for England"). He is a big favorite in the backroom staff, particularly rowntree. I think this highlights a important point, we need someone else calling the lineouts as we are too reliant on Parling at the moment if he gets injured and out for months we be going in blind into the 6N.

Who else can do it? Robshaw? Wood? Lawes??? Launchbury?? etc etc?

what a dilemma<_<
 
I've been saying this recently... why not play all three? Form means we can't leave Launchbury or Parling out, and quality means we can't leave out Lawes. So how about Launchbury at 6 with Lawes and Parling in the second row?

4. Lawes 5. Parling 6. Launchbury 7. Wood 8. Armitage
19. Robshaw 20. Morgan

Every position is covered, players are in form and the damage we would do at the breakdown, especially with Cole also involved...
 
I've been saying this recently... why not play all three? Form means we can't leave Launchbury or Parling out, and quality means we can't leave out Lawes. So how about Launchbury at 6 with Lawes and Parling in the second row?

4. Lawes 5. Parling 6. Launchbury 7. Wood 8. Armitage
19. Robshaw 20. Morgan

Every position is covered, players are in form and the damage we would do at the breakdown, especially with Cole also involved...

You are on to something!
 
It's certainly an interesting idea, but I think it'd be a bit unfair to drop Robshaw to do so.
 
There should be a ban on mentioning Armitage when discussing team selections unless he comes back to play in England or every back row in England drops dead...

Launchbury has to figure somewhere, I can see him and Lawes battling it out over the second starting berth and lock with Parling. While they're fit and on form they both easily get into the 23 its just a matter of who starts. My money would be on Launchbury for now considering how long Lawes has had off...

Also Tom Croft said in an interview at the weekend he is returning to training in a couple of weeks.
 
If all fit, Lawes will start ahead of Launchbury -Lawes just has that X Factor, Lawes remember if fit has good chance being in the Lions BEFORE the Autumn tests!

Trust me Lancaster/Rowntree love Lawes he will get the nod ahead of Launchbury and we have a good old debate on here :lol:
 
While Lawes at 6/that combination of 2nd/backrow is very interesting, I can't see (and wouldn't want) Robshaw dropped.
Backrow worked very well as a unit vs NZ, and it looks very balanced. I'd keep it as is and keep Lawes as impact from the bench (barring severe shifts in form/injuries in the run up to the Six Nations).
It's a nice problem to have however - we've gone from the likes of Deacon & Borthwick, to agonising on how to fit all our players in to one side.

Lawes would have to be on top form to overtake Launchbury, something he hasn't been for a while (due to injury/just coming back from injury/getting injured again etc.).
 
If all fit, Lawes will start ahead of Launchbury -Lawes just has that X Factor, Lawes remember if fit has good chance being in the Lions BEFORE the Autumn tests!

Trust me Lancaster/Rowntree love Lawes he will get the nod ahead of Launchbury and we have a good old debate on here :lol:

What x factor has Lawes? Late tackling is the only x factor I see.
 
off topic:

Boris in the RWC draw was all excited and stuff and had his big buffoon hair waving around making bizzare quotes as he normally does.
And he asked Richie McCaw "aye your captain of the new zealand team, you lost didn;t you no worries old chap, the RWC you probably not beat us anyway ha ha ha.
but must say jolly good game sir when u played, what position you play richard"

Richie was a bit shocked with the presence of Boris bashing around. A commantor asked Richie what he thought of boris he said something like "i don't think i seen a him before, ermm unique bloke mate?
 

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