[EOYT] England vs. Australia 02/11/13

[Wasps For Life]

Is the Argentina match in Saturday? At 2.30 again?

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Is the Argentina match in Saturday? At 2.30 again?

Yes. Rugby heaven on Saturday: 2.30pm England V Argentina; followed by Wales v SA at 5.30pm; ending with France v ABs at 8pm.

http://www.planetrugby.com/

 

[McTallshort]

Good Game, but the issue with Stephen Moore and Owen Farrell was the worst decision and just because of that TRY AUSTRALIA LOST

Nothing to do with the crap scrummaging and lackluster breakdown work then?

 

[ZeFrenchy]

it's true Australia lost in great controversy, and exactly by that controversy's total: 7 points, the try converted....
But let me tell you what will happen. This is a mere Autumn test, not a series, not a tournament, and there are many more tests to come for Aus on that tour. History will have everyone forget about this, and ppl will just look at Australia's record that year and say: "oh boy, they showed heavy losses in TRC, and then even lost their first test of the European Tour !"

It's bs, it's unfair, Justice was elsewhere that day in London, but it is also a reality. Now let's just hope Australia can win a good number of those other 4 tests in the NH.

Personally, I think this test deserved a draw. None of the two teams were a class above the other, and both had advantages and big flaws. This really should've been a 13-13, or maybe a last second victory 16-13 to either team.

I really think you're saying that just to wind me up...

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

Oh, well let me stop you right there then if my first message wasn't enough. Take my word for it, as you know I'm not the kind to hide....well, anything at all ! - I don't nearly hate England, and I don't even dislike them as much as some French will. I don't have the systematic dislike against England. My claims were in deed honest up there, and because I'm a Wallaby fan (and have been since I started watching the sport) it was annoying to watch, again, especially given the complexion of their year, what a horrible disappointment for a team that some years ago still managed to put 40 points past NH teams.

I'll go deeper if you want to know, about England. I don't like conservatism in sports. I like to see a team with "pure" intentions to score, as I've exposed on a thread some months ago.
England will look for the team to make mistakes, will play possession often because they have no confidence in their full field attacking ability, will watch out above all for their discipline as they want to be by all means possible on the receiving end of penalties...it's just everything I don't like in Rugby. Some of the rare times I enjoyed watching England was the 2002-03 era, because of Cohen, a prime Wilko and some guys who could bring some excitement to the game.

And England as a country, and its people: I have some animosity deep in me against the English, but contain it. You won't see me acting out of bias. I consciously make an effort to like England and look at the positive sides. I concede with no complex for example that England have qualities we don't have in France, or do some things better.
It's just, in my personality altogether, there aren't many things that have ever gotten me close to England. It's a question of taste.

And I wish I could cheer for England, but there aren't many teams I'd rather see England win against. I don't like seeing England win against good teams because as the saying goes "England are better losers than winners" as in typically you guys will be very humble in defeat, and lucid and fair but when you win it's some of the most awful bragging to have to go through, I tell you from experience, not prejudice or word of mouth.

And I don't care about why others 'hate' England. I don't hate England, and the things I dislike about England are founded. And you should stop using that yourself as a template-argument, that if we ever criticize England it's because "oh, the whole world hates us anyways", that gets tiresome.

It's all there. And I'm telling you 'it' as it is, no bs, no concessions.

Thanks for your post, and I can entirely respect your position. Also, if I name you specifically it's hardly because your in my eyes the worst, but because I feel you are intelligent and can be engaged with!

And just to say briefly re myself.. I would describe myself as a post-nationalist - and am not sentimental about the country within whose boundaries I happen to have been born - except when it comes to sport. My club, Wasps, and my Country England, are a lens through which to enjoy the passions of competitive sport and the sport I love, rugby. My own people, I'm not sentimental about - I feel there are some great British and a load of idiotic British who I wouldn't get along with. I think I can say the same about the people of lots of countries, France included. I particularly love the people of the south of France, but find that Parisians can be harder to rub along with( no offense intended here - my girlfriend and family are french parisians and it's something they also say about their own people). But for me what this comes down to, back to sport, is that I find it confusing when people harbour a particular animosity to the British and bring that back into the arena of sport - because for me, whilst I have no particular solidarity with Britishness outside of sport, neither do I feel they deserve the sorts of animosity they sometimes get any more than any other people would.

As regards England of last six nations and further back, I'm torn. Partly, I'm disappointed that our best fly-half is deemed to be Owen and that we can't play the most exciting brand of rugby possible. But at the same time we are not alone in this - I don't feel that the Wales of the Gatland/current era or Ireland of the Kidney era were coached to play a particularly more exciting, flair-based game any more so than the current England side are - it's just that perhaps they have in one of two positions players with the ability and skill to bring the team to life more often. Looking at the six nations, I only think our last two performances deserve wholesale criticism. We played a good game against the Scots, played the conditions against Ireland as they should have done, and got drawn into an arm wrestle against France and came out on top. In general, I think therefore that there are stereotypes of England rugby that are somewhat valid, but others which are little more than a hangover from previous years and teams. We appear to receive more stick than other teams for winning ugly, I guess because it used to be our 'type.'

 

[Big Ewis]

^ well then thanks for your post too, and your positions are respectable as well.

Know that I don't function with stereotypes, and everything I say is based on repeated personal experience or sure sources+ repeated personal experience and it's true English people have a certain way of celebrating victory and considering themselves above the rest, that is specific to only them. Others are 'even worse', if you'll allow the expression, but English people have a very English, specific way of doing it.

Yes I agree with the rest of the universe that Parisians are fkn annoying. In fact French ppl as a whole are fkn annoying and have tons of flaws...the thing about the French is their flaws are as enormous as their qualities, so really love them or hate them.

About pride and all. The English Empire was a very big thing, I personally respect it but am not as overwhelmed by it as many are, but I respect the fact that English ppl are proud of it. Colonization isn't smt I respect...but anyways that's its own topic.

About the 2013 6N:
well Ireland just didn't play nearly the tournament they could have. Not to say they ought to have been on that Wales Ireland 1st half form the whole way, but they deserved a lot more and had quality backs that could put great plays together. Wales had the strength in the backs, they did score the game-winning try in Paris, they put a couple of nice ones on England, got past Italy and Scotland with ease though on the road, and then had that crazy second half against Ireland that was battering them in the first.
I don't mean to rub it in your face, but England was by far the least exciting team to watch. Every match that would start, I'd hear a whistle around the 7th minute...something like that...and then see Farrell doing his best impression of Anthony Perkins with a huge zoom on his mug. That's....basically it.
Of course, in the meantime, France sucked big time and with that team on paper managed a beautiful Spoon. But the current topic is England.

And I insist I'd be fine with an England GS if they "deserved" it.

But you must understand globally that I'm conscious of too many things in my life to be entirely pro-England and embrace all of its existence with open arms. If you feel the same about France, then you do. What can I do about it ? But the best I can do is not follow clichés and take everyone as an individual, and be as objective as I can when it comes to anything English.

Like, obviously I won't love the Beatles or Killing Joke or Justin Broadrick from Godflesh or Depeche Mode any less merely because....they're English.
But I see certain things that refrain me from accepting all of it with no concession in its entirety and all my heart. And there's no way back from that, it's just knowledge of things as they are, I didn't choose for everything to be as it is.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Know that I don't function with stereotypes, and everything I say is based on repeated personal experience or sure sources+ repeated personal experience and it's true English people have a certain way of celebrating victory and considering themselves above the rest, that is specific to only them. Others are 'even worse', if you'll allow the expression, but English people have a very English, specific way of doing it.

I know what you mean. That's just blind nationalistic arrogance - but I accept your point.

However, I can guarantee that there are also large sections of British (particularly English) society that are so crippled by manners that they can barely show their excitement/pride in public.
But you wont notice them, because they aren't being dicks.
I can imagine that a lot of the English people you meet that live/work in/around the Arabian Peninsula are probably the sort of perma-***** that you're referring to. (assuming you do actually live in Qatar)
In the same way that If you walked around the streets of London on a Friday or Saturday evening you'd be forgiven for thinking that everyone between the ages of 16-30 was a binge-drinking STD riddled miscreant.

 

[Aristodemus]

I don't think English people consider themselves "above the rest" Yoe or even take pride in an empire that ended long ago. Do England have a monopoly on colonisation too? Why even mention that.

As for the rugby, perhaps we didn't blow everyone away in an orgy of tries but I don't see who did. Wales had a great performance against us in Cardiff but other than that the whole tournament was mediocre in terms of free flowing rugby. People just like to see England lose, we are somewhat a pantomime villain in the union world, I feel though that Ireland and the British teams are very similar in approach to the game.

 

[yarmolinsky]

That's just blind nationalistic arrogance

And that's where I should step in.

I must admit that each time I witnessed English folks celebrating something in bulk - I was taping it. 'Cause that's the show to remember. One simply has to see it. Honestly.
And one more observation. It looks like English guys are incompatible with alcohol. Totally. As soon as one shot of anything stronger than beer gets inside of an Englishman - you simply have to get your camera ready.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

^ Too obvious.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Celebrating what exactly?

 

[Big Ewis]

I know what you mean. That's just blind nationalistic arrogance - but I accept your point.

However, I can guarantee that there are also large sections of British (particularly English) society that are so crippled by manners that they can barely show their excitement/pride in public.
But you wont notice them, because they aren't being dicks.
I can imagine that a lot of the English people you meet that live/work in/around the Arabian Peninsula are probably the sort of perma-***** that you're referring to. (assuming you do actually live in Qatar)
In the same way that If you walked around the streets of London on a Friday or Saturday evening you'd be forgiven for thinking that everyone between the ages of 16-30 was a binge-drinking STD riddled miscreant.

loooooooool why on EARTH would I be faking that I really am in Qatar ?! that's one of the most hilarious things I've read in a while ! I don't know if you meant like, that I currently live elsewhere or smt....but trust me buddy, there's noooooooo pride in saying you live in Qatar ! hah, good one....

Anyways, well yeah man the English are stuckups. No doubt. French are super stuck up too, I'd say if there were a World Cup the Final would be England France, no doubt. They'd annihilate all competition. There are millions of corks up ppl's anuses in both our countries, that's just a scientific fact. It's different types of constipation, but definitely way up deep in there.

Aristodemus
And about the colonisation thing, France obviously had an Empire of its own, but both ways of colonising were different. And why mention it ? WELL CAUSE I WANNA !

 

[ratsapprentice]

I wasn't suggesting you didn't live there!!
I was just making sure it wasn't some sort of weird joke or something.

 

[Big Ewis]

I wasn't suggesting you didn't live there!!
I was just making sure it wasn't some sort of weird joke or something.

:lol: it made me laugh anyways !
Dude, I was born here and spent 25 of 27 years here. :lol: swear to God.

 

[Da Grappla]

Why Quade Cooper is afraid at tackling? The guy throws himself into a muay thai ring and avoids full contact tackles.

Don't get it <_<

 

[InsaneAsylum]

Why Quade Cooper is afraid at tackling? The guy throws himself into a muay thai ring and avoids full contact tackles.

Don't get it <_<

He's improved a heap this year defending in the front line instead of at 15, but I agree a few years ago he seemed to try to avoid contact on the rugby field, yet happy to get in a ring with the sole purpose of hitting someone/being hit in the head. crazy really

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

He's improved a heap this year defending in the front line instead of at 15, but I agree a few years ago he seemed to try to avoid contact on the rugby field, yet happy to get in a ring with the sole purpose of hitting someone/being hit in the head. crazy really

Cooper seems to like petty contact such as shoving players on the ground. Just look at the game vs England where he pushed Yarde's head back after he got taken into touch for no reason.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

<iframe width="960" height="720" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/YYas0aXtRzU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Good analysis of the 17 scrums by Scott Allen of the Roar Rugby website.

 

[Zed]

Anyone that thinks QC can't or won't tackle either doesn't watch any rugby or doesn't understand rugby.

 

[Big Ewis]

^ pretty interesting.
Definitely an England advantage that match.
My, my...is it really that impossible to get some reinforcement in the scrum for the Wallabies after all those years ?? Their woes have been going on since 2008 as far as I personally know, probably earlier. They can't find a stronger tight 3 in all of Australia ??....
Imagine if they just had a good scrum, with all those other qualities they've got....what a waste.