EOYT: Wales vs New Zealand, 24/11/2012

[TRF_Ezequiel]

Millennium Stadium, Cardiff (24-11-2012, 17:15 GMT)
​

Referee: Craig Joubert (South Africa)
Assistant referees: TBD
Television match official: TBD
​

 

[dullonien]

Mommy :huh:

 

[TRF_Cymro]

Wales Injury Update:

Wales centre Jonathan Davies is expected to take a full part in training this week as the squad prepares for the Dove Men Series clash with New Zealand at the Millennium Stadium on Saturday.

Matthew Rees is expected to come through training this week after resting, due to a calf problem, last weekend.

Richard Hibbard sustained an injury to the AC joint of his shoulder and a final prognosis will be made available following his acute management and further medical discussion. He is unlikely to take any further part in the series.

Dan Biggar suffered a similar injury to Hibbard and was also replaced during the game on Friday, but his problem is considered to be less severe and it is hoped that intense treatment and management may allow him to contribute to the remainder of the series.

Ian Evans took a knock to his knee, also during the clash with Samoa, and his injury will be managed during the early part of the training week in order to give him every possible chance of being available this Saturday.

Blues lock Lou Reed and Scarlets hooker Kirby Myhill have been brought in to add to numbers in training â€" they join fellow Scarlet Samson Lee and Ospreys lock Lloyd Peers who have already been asked to train with the Wales squad.

No new players have yet been fully called up to the squad.

 

[Big Ewis]

God speed Wales. Well I keep typing comments of hope and cheering up for you guys but nobody ever buys it ! :lol:

Keep it (AB's score total) as low as possible, score at least a try, give it your all and your people should be satisfied - unless they're disgustingly ungrateful.

 

[dullonien]

With the pressure off, as nobody is expecting Wales to come close after the last two games, we could perform here, and surprise a lot of people by pushing the AB's hard. That's what I'm hoping for anyway. I think Gareth Thomas' comments on Scrum V could be right, in that this is the best possible game for Wales at the moment. They know they have to perform or we could be on the end of an almighty thrashing, the kind I thought were behind us. If these players can't get up for this game, then there's something very, very wrong.

If they do, how is that going to reflect on Howley, because everyone will automatically put it down to Gatland returning, which might not be the actual case?

 

[TRF_Cymro]

Gatland will be a massive factor in this. It's clear to see that both Howley and McBryde lack the ability to direct the Welsh team in any form.

 

[dullonien]

Gatland will be a massive factor in this. It's clear to see that both Howley and McBryde lack the ability to direct the Welsh team in any form.

Yeah I agree. The recent success has masked the inabilities of those two. We were correct when we were saying 18months ago that we needed new forward and attack coaches, coaches with experience.

I still maintain that Nigel Davies is a top quality attack coach. Not convinced he's a head coach, but he teams are always potent attacking wise (Scarlets, Gloucester, and Wales under Gareth Jenkins). Not sure about forwards coach, but there's nothing saying that they have to be Welsh. The national set-up is not the place to develop Welsh coaches, why weren't Howley and McBryde sent to the Premiership to devlop, followed by the regions and maybe in 10years they would be up to the task of being part of the national set-up as long as they proved their worth.

Gatland and Shaun Edwards are fine. It's difficult to judge Neil Jenkins. McBryde has been up and down as the forwards perform well for a time then drop off again. Wales' attacking has never been good enough under Howley, relying on grinding out a score by holding onto possession more multiple fazes until an overlap is generated, or relying solely on individual skill (Shane Williams) or brute force (Roberts, North and Cuthbert).

 

[Feicarsinn]

Gatland will be a massive factor in this. It's clear to see that both Howley and McBryde lack the ability to direct the Welsh team in any form.

While this may be true in part, I think Howley is taking more stick than he should be. The fact of the matter was that with the Welsh regions in a worse state than they've ever been before it was only a matter of time before that had a knock on effect on the national team. It's unfortunate that Gatland isn't there when it is occurring, but I don't think it would have made a huge difference. Unfortunately for Wales, you can't just switch from poor form to good, and the majority of the Welsh teams have been utterly poor this season.

 

[doublejd]

I hope gatland works on the mental side of things this week.
Confidence is shot!
I was just behind the posts at the samoa game, where the players were stretching out. When biggar got munched and priestland got the call, I swear his shoulders dropped!

Remember RWC 2003? Noone gave Wales a chance, but turned into a great game because they wanted to be there. (Shane!)

 

[SomeOke]

It's sad, I've been looking forward to this fixture since the WC, and the 6-nations just added fuel to that, however it does seem like the Welsh are going through a slump at the moment.
Still anything can happen, Wales will have a point to prove, and although NZ have looked superb during their tour so far in theory this should be the their first challenge.

I'll go for 500 on the draw, could be a nice pay-off .

 

[Draggs]

Those are great odds to bet on New Zealand with.

 

[Darwin]

I'm predicting we will see the following AB's lineup (as we are going to pick our top lineup this week):

1. Woodcock
2. Hore
3. O Franks
4. Romano (I would prefer Retallick, though it is almost 50:50 for me)
5. Whitelock
6. Messam
7. McCaw
8. Read
9. A Smith (if fit, otherwise Weepu)
10. Carter
11. Savea
12. Nonu
13. C Smith
14. Jane
15. Dagg

16. Coles (as Mealamu looks like he will miss the test with a calf injury)
17. Crockett
18. Faumuina
19. Retallick
20. Vito
21. Weepu
22. Cruden
23. B Smith (if fit, otherwise Gear I suppose).

I don't think there are too many areas of debate. Mealamu would be a shot at starting at hooker but it sounds like he will miss the test through injury, while locks are 50:50 are I've already mentioned. There is a possibility that Vito may get a shot at 6 after his strong match versus Scotland, but Messam's consistent form during the season should see him maintain that jersey. There is a few rumours that Aaron Smith could lose his starting spot after a couple of poor matches - this would be ridiculous if this was to happen in my opinion as they would be replacing him with someone who has had an entire poor season! The rest of the backline more or less picks itself - Savea's superb performance against Italy should see him have the number 11 jersey sewn up for the rest of the tour at the very least.

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

Yep, not a whole lot of room for debate.

It's all a bit boring, isn't it?

I think Messam is a cert for 6, but I think that 20 jersey will be up for grabs between Vito and Cane.

 

[DuncTheDoodle]

we are going to pick our top lineup this week

Mercy?

If you'd asked me before the start of the autumn if I'd swap a win over the All Blacks for a loss in all three other games, I'd've said yes. I'm just preying some kind of deal with the devil has been done and we'll pull off the biggest upset in rugby history on Saturday.

Although I fear even with a God pulling the strings, Priestland might still manage to blow it for us.

 

[donmcdazzle]

I'm predicting we will see the following AB's lineup (as we are going to pick our top lineup this week):

1. Woodcock
2. Hore
3. O Franks
4. Romano (I would prefer Retallick, though it is almost 50:50 for me)
5. Whitelock
6. Messam
7. McCaw
8. Read
9. A Smith (if fit, otherwise Weepu)
10. Carter
11. Savea
12. Nonu
13. C Smith
14. Jane
15. Dagg

16. Coles (as Mealamu looks like he will miss the test with a calf injury)
17. Crockett
18. Faumuina
19. Retallick
20. Vito
21. Weepu
22. Cruden
23. B Smith (if fit, otherwise Gear I suppose).

I don't think there are too many areas of debate. Mealamu would be a shot at starting at hooker but it sounds like he will miss the test through injury, while locks are 50:50 are I've already mentioned. There is a possibility that Vito may get a shot at 6 after his strong match versus Scotland, but Messam's consistent form during the season should see him maintain that jersey. There is a few rumours that Aaron Smith could lose his starting spot after a couple of poor matches - this would be ridiculous if this was to happen in my opinion as they would be replacing him with someone who has had an entire poor season! The rest of the backline more or less picks itself - Savea's superb performance against Italy should see him have the number 11 jersey sewn up for the rest of the tour at the very least.

This makes me crazy, and has convinced me that rugby writers either a) can't analyse a game to save themselves or b) purposely dumb down their writing for the masses. Weepu played reasonably well in a game where he was under no pressure, had no harrassment from Scottish forwards around the rucks and the Scottish defensive line wasn't rushing at all so he had front foot ball all game. Smith was getting Italian forwards pouring through at him all game, the Italian defense was rushing and we weren't breaking the gain line so he had hardly any good clean front foot ball. Yet they simplify it, the great unwashed start repeating what they read and hey presto, all of a sudden people think
Weepu whould start again. Granted Smith wasn't that good anyway, but I hate how they ignore all those factors when judging performances, especially the further away the game was. They'll just reference the fact Weepu was good/Smith was poor.

Not meaning you by the way Darwin, I'm just meaning in general that's how people seem to go around the water cooler.

 

[Helmy]

This makes me crazy, and has convinced me that rugby writers either a) can't analyse a game to save themselves or b) purposely dumb down their writing for the masses. Weepu played reasonably well in a game where he was under no pressure, had no harrassment from Scottish forwards around the rucks and the Scottish defensive line wasn't rushing at all so he had front foot ball all game. Smith was getting Italian forwards pouring through at him all game, the Italian defense was rushing and we weren't breaking the gain line so he had hardly any good clean front foot ball. Yet they simplify it, the great unwashed start repeating what they read and hey presto, all of a sudden people think
Weepu whould start again. Granted Smith wasn't that good anyway, but I hate how they ignore all those factors when judging performances, especially the further away the game was. They'll just reference the fact Weepu was good/Smith was poor.

Not meaning you by the way Darwin, I'm just meaning in general that's how people seem to go around the water cooler.

Is the correct answer. The average newspaper article is written so that an 11 or 12 year old could read it. Unfortunately, the masses control the media just as much as the media controls the masses, so we have a nice little merry go round of uninformed opinions.

 

[FlukeArtist]

Personally, I think Vito is a better player than Messam and I'd ike to see him there.
I think Messam has regular shifts in form; from good player (but not great) to invisible.
I think Vito is the future, and Messam is only there because Kaino departed for the big yen.

Re the Smith / Weepu thing; it dosn't bother me which one starts. they'll both end up with game time.
I think Weepu has played himself back into RWC form again though (at last!)
I shudder to think what sort of fitness he will show up to Blues training in for next season though... might buy myself some KFC shares come to think of it...

 

[Draggs]

Apparently Llanelli beat an All Blacks B side a few years back.
Good news!

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

Personally, I think Vito is a better player than Messam and I'd ike to see him there.
I think Messam has regular shifts in form; from good player (but not great) to invisible.
I think Vito is the future, and Messam is only there because Kaino departed for the big yen.

I don't think either of them is the future 6, I think that's between Brad Shields and Steve Luatua. In the short term, I think Messam is the better option.

Apparently Llanelli beat an All Blacks B side a few years back.
Good news!

Must've been more than a few years... I sure don't remember it

EDIT: Oh... http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-20161903 ("Men of Llanelli celebrate win 40 years on")

 

[TRF_Cymro]

WALES: Leigh Halfpenny; Alex Cuthbert, Jonathan Davies, Jamie Roberts, George North; Rhys Priestland, Mike Phillips; Paul James, Matthew Rees, Aaron Jarvis, Bradley Davies, Luke Charteris, Ryan Jones, Sam Warburton (captain), Toby Faletau
REPLACEMENTS:Ken Owens, Gethin Jenkins, Scott Andrews, Aaron Shingler, Justin Tipuric, Tavis Knoyle, James Hook, Scott Williams