EOYT: Wales vs New Zealand, 24/11/2012

[SelimNiai]

Now I'm back from work I can fully explain why I think this "no intent" is rubbish

Firstly Hore is about 6-7 inches shorter than Davies so any natural arm movement will collide with the shoulder area so in order to hit Davies where he did Hore would have consciously moved his arm upwards. Secondly Davies was knocked out on impact so it had to be a full on blow and you cant generate that force swinging it with an open palm so Hore had to have clenched his fist in the act not something you do if you don't intend something malicious. And finally if Hore thought Davies was genuinley interfering, then why not shove or push him away, so to me Hore decided he'd make more of an impact so did what he did.

I doubt many will agree with my thoughts and that's OK but to me Hore committed a violent, thuggish act and he lied to the disciplinary panel to get off easier, hardly signs of remorse but a clever lawyer.

 

[dullonien]

Ideally I would like to see larger bans than this (for everyone), but I think 5 weeks is in line with a lot of others handed out recently. At least it wasn't 1 week or something silly.

Hopefully this is the end of it, can we all move on now?

 

[SelimNiai]

Yeah, I've said my bit. Bring on Saturday

 

[Larksea]

can't disagree with the ban, 8 weeks reduced to 5 because of a clean record over 74 tests

also agree that bans should be more harsh and some of the worst stuff I've seen in the last few years was not even picked up.

no real excuse for Hore's actions but some wide angle footage and other angles came out during the week and showed that Davies moved from side to side to block Hores approach to the ruck, Davies moved into Hores hit, Hore had an open hand not a closed fist and that alot of the damage would have been done when both players hit the ground Hore landed on Davies head which was surely unintentional.

Even though the media painted him without remorse he was in contact with Davies basically every day to apologies and see how he was going.

It doesn't excuse what he did but does show that it wasn't the unprovoked attack with intent to do physical harm the media made it out to be.

This did reflect badly on Hore, the all blacks and NZ adding to the fact that they have had two in two weeks. But that is the only two for the whole year, This is Hores only blemish on a 75 test record so far, he's a hard arse but not a thug or criminal. There are players out there who have to front the IRB almost every season even multiple times a season. No Current All Blacks are like that.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

A tip for everyone there. If you are about to be sentenced you can say you are "sorry" and you pretty much get away with it. Who needs lawyers anyway.

come on, yesterday every one was bagging him for not saying sorry....

five had to be the minimum so hopefully no appeals etc

I do like the idea if compitition bans, so five test matches. as it stands we're the only ones that will really suffer from this and even more than the AB's would have as Hore is our captain. If it had happened in a highlanders game i think Jamie Joesph woud have handled it differently....

 

[Sweatybee]

8 weeks reduced to 5 seems about right considering his super clean record and remorse for the situation. What annoys me is the MEDIA outcry over Hore, McCaw, Hansen and All Black squad lack of PUBLIC penitence especially when they are motivated by profit.

 

[Shaggy]

8 weeks reduced to 5 seems about right considering his super clean record and remorse for the situation. What annoys me is the MEDIA outcry over Hore, McCaw, Hansen and All Black squad lack of PUBLIC penitence especially when they are motivated by profit.

Exactly, the penalty is fair under the current rules for penalising these types of offences ... I couldn't understand why there was an insistence for a PUBLIC appology, as it was the player that got injured, not the public ... as for the whole "clubs getting penalised" for offences committed in a test match, it works the other way too, and it's primarily the offending player that's getting penalised anyway

... as my namesake says "it's time to flush the dunny, and move on"

 

[nickdnz]

WELLINGTON (AFP) - New Zealand hooker Andrew Hore apologised Thursday for a hit from behind on Wales lock Bradley Davies that resulted in a five-match ban, saying he had let down his team and the entire country.

Hore, who will miss Saturday's Test against England due to the ban, said he was "embarrassed" at his action early in the 33-10 win over Wales last Saturday, which resulted in Davies being taken to hospital.
"It is not the All Black way and I have let myself down and the team and probably the whole country that is pretty proud of what we do," he told the New Zealand Herald.
Hore said he had personally apologised to Davies in a phone call and he hoped the Welshman, who will miss this weekend's Test against Australia after suffering concussion from the punch, made a swift recovery.
The 74-Test veteran said senior All Blacks had taken a dim view of his action, which leaves New Zealand lacking an experienced hooker against England with Keven Mealamu likely to miss the Test with a calf injury.
"The All Black management and the leader group that I'm a part of has been pretty stern on me for getting us into this situation and I have to take what I have got and go back and start building a reputation as a good, clean, hard footy player," he said.
"Hopefully I can do that in the next Super Rugby competition when I get back playing."

http://nz.sports.yahoo.com/rugby/news/article/-/15508759/all-blacks-hore-apologises-for-wales-hit/

Hopefully this puts an end to the incident. The punishment even leans towards to the more sever side considering other similar incidents this year.

 

[TRF C A Iversen]

5 weeks would be enough if it was that he was banned for three tests and two regular season Super Rugby games, but bans are light and wrongly handled for all players and teams.

Still, will be interesting to see this same huge outcry when an All Black next gets hit off the ball deliberately. I'd imagine that many of these Welsh and NH fans will be literally baying for the blood of whoever does it and when the sentence is handed down, they'll no doubt at all be up in arms that it wasn't enough, didn't impact on the national team etc. I'm really looking forward to them swinging in behind the All Blacks and making a massive deal about it. It'll be awesome to see.

 

[smartcooky]

Now I'm back from work I can fully explain why I think this "no intent" is rubbish

Firstly Hore is about 6-7 inches shorter than Davies so any natural arm movement will collide with the shoulder area so in order to hit Davies where he did Hore would have consciously moved his arm upwards. Secondly Davies was knocked out on impact so it had to be a full on blow and you cant generate that force swinging it with an open palm so Hore had to have clenched his fist in the act not something you do if you don't intend something malicious.

I think Davies was only staggered by the impact of Hore's hand. It just wasn't hard enough to knock him out unless it was a very lucky hit. It was Hore's knee hitting him in the head as he drove into the ruck that was the knock-out blow; that much is clear from the video, especially the replay from directly behind the tackle zone.

I doubt many will agree with my thoughts and that's OK but to me Hore committed a violent, thuggish act and he lied to the disciplinary panel to get off easier, hardly signs of remorse but a clever lawyer.

Pure speculation on your part, and totally without basis. Hore has kept in daily contact with Davies, checking on his recovery. He has also copped a bollocking form the other members of the All Blacks leadership group, and has also apologised to them for letting them down. This is hardly the actions of a remorseless man.

And finally if Hore thought Davies was genuinley interfering, then why not shove or push him away, so to me Hore decided he'd make more of an impact so did what he did.

Oh he was genuinely interfering alright. The overhead video is shuts the door on any suggestion that Davies was just running his own line. Davies was deliberately running a line of obstruction. He was looking around to make sure he knew where Hore was running and changing direction to deliberately keep obstructing his line to the tackle area. I guess he might be thinking twice before he tries that again.

Faced with an opponent doing this to me, I would have got a decent grip on his jersey or around his waist and dragged him into my side of the tackle area, so that he gets pinged for incorrect entry - if he wants to deliberately run my line to the tackle, he can bloody well come with me!! Running his own line and getting in my way is one thing, but looking around to make SURE that he gets in my way, that is another thing entirely.


And while we are on the subject of thuggery, have a look at this nasty bit of the same from Justin Tipuric on Wyatt Crockett



That is a vicious stamp. While it is not to the head, it is clearly intended to cause pain and or injury. It is at least as bad as the Thomson one in terms of intent and much, much worse as far as potential for harm goes.

► How did the citing officer manage to miss this when it was obvious, out in the open, and even the commentators talked about it?

► Where is the British media feeding frenzy expressing outrage about this act of thuggery?

► Why are Mick Cleary and Stephen Jones not using twitter to pressure Brett Gosper in to doing something about this?

 

[smartcooky]

The weeks system peanalises clubs instead of test sides. An 8 week ban at the end of a test series has no baring on the next test, but impares the club totally. Therefore the national coaches work to make sure the ban ends before the next test match (e.g. Hartley with the Ferris bite incident). A split total/competition ban, so the next x amount in all rugby and % of in I the competition the ban was earned in running concurrent would act as a better deterrent (so e.g. An 8 week ban becomes 8 matches from all teams, plus say the next 2 if earned in the Heineken cup or test rugby etc.)

It works the other way too... an EPS player copping a three week ban playing for Leicester the weekend before the opening round of Six Nations has an impact on his national side even though he wasn't playing for them
.
Also, how would you deal with a player who cops, say a 6 match ban in the first round of the Heineken Cup? That puts him out of most of the Heineken Cup season (back for semis?).

 

[Zed]

Smartcookie, no idea why you showed that video.. it's a barely a stamp, if he did connect the worst he could do is perhaps a mildly grazed leg.... it's not even in the same league as Hore's incident.

 

[William18]

So there you go. Hore got 8 weeks which was reduced to five due to good behaviour. A fair and consistent punishment when you compare it to other offences.

I think I also have to apologise to Hore for ciriticising him for not showing enough remorse. I hope people like Kovana and Mark Reason will do the same. Hore was at Davies' hospital bed a lot and an apology has been issued. What he did was a thuggish action but I do not consider Hore to be a thug. Time to move on from the incident and focus on what we are actually at this forum for.

 

[Zed]

Hore was at Davies' hospital bed a lot and an apology has been issued. What he did was a thuggish action but I do not consider Hore to be a thug. .

yup I agree.

 

[smartcooky]

Smartcookie, no idea why you showed that video.. it's a barely a stamp, if he did connect the worst he could do is perhaps a mildly grazed leg.... it's not even in the same league as Hore's incident.

You're kidding right? That is a potential leg-breaker, a nasty and vicious stamp done in petulant fashion, and you won't find many referees who would not red card that if they saw it.

Also, I didn't compare it with Hore's action at all, so get your facts straight!!

 

[TRF C A Iversen]

Smartcookie, no idea why you showed that video.. it's a barely a stamp, if he did connect the worst he could do is perhaps a mildly grazed leg.... it's not even in the same league as Hore's incident.

It could have (if there was another leg under Crockett's) caused any number of trauma type injuries to the muscle,ligaments or bone around the lower leg/ankle which may have caused the player to be out for several weeks. It's not exactly in the league of a head bound shot (due to the injuries that can happen to the head), but it's still an incident of obvious malicious intent. Or was it an accident? Or perhaps done in a loving way?

 

[Rhyer]

It could have (if there was another leg under Crockett's) caused any number of trauma type injuries to the muscle,ligaments or bone around the lower leg/ankle which may have caused the player to be out for several weeks. It's not exactly in the league of a head bound shot (due to the injuries that can happen to the head), but it's still an incident of obvious malicious intent. Or was it an accident? Or perhaps done in a loving way?

I think we all know that Tipuric and Crockett are ''secret'' lovers.

 

[DuncTheDoodle]

The difference is that Justin Tipuric is actually the best player in the world, so is allowed to play by his own rules. I think the real outrage in that clip is that Grant Nisbitt doesn't know who he is. I know Nisbitt's a short-sighted, arrogant fool, but surely he should know who JUSTIN TIPURIC is, God's gift to rugby?

 

[TRF_Cymro]

This is deffo going up for TRF Thread of the Year in the TRFies.

 

[DuncTheDoodle]

This is deffo going up for TRF Thread of the Year in the TRFies.

This thread's brilliant. I've got more rep's from this thread than I have from all the others over the entire rest of the year. I love this thread. I wish all threads were like this thread, then there'd just be the great big paradoxical loop of me constantly getting more and more rep's as I gain more and more that year, until I cause the internet to combust, at which point sales for newspapers and magazines skyrocket, and they all attribute it to me, so I get 15% of the profits of all print media without writing a word of it.