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[EOYT] Wales vs. South Africa 09/11/13

I didn't think wales played badly . SA were poor to their standards but had they reached the standards of the last game in the rugby championship wales would have lost by 30 .
 
SA played poor in my view, the game plan was to win and play the percentages and yes it worked.
Had we not kick the ball nearly all the time this could have been a trashing of note

So much for being full of yourselves beforehand now right...
 
A very close game (I'm subtracting the 3rd SA try) and I think there is a lot both teams can improve on. SA not scoring a single point after the first 20 minutes against a Welsh backline unlucky and reshuffled through injury.. well, we won't be overtaking NZ any time soon if we can't keep up the intensity and accuracy and finish a greater number of opportunities.
 
I wouldn't read anything into that game in terms of where Wales are at. Granted, we lost, but we gave it a pretty good fist considering we had to reshuffle our entire team into a pattern we're uncomfortable with (We played a similar line-up in the second half V. Scotland with Cuthbert rather than North last year, but otherwise they hadn't played together), and considering we were already down Cuthbert and Walker, it's an unrealistic way to look at it. I feel we've got some depth, but to lose five members of the backline in the lead-up to the game would be a problem for any team, so I'm proud to see us compete. With a full team I'd like to think we could have snuck it. The main problem is this won't help us develop anyone other than Scotty (Who's already just about there) as a replacement, as Sanjay went off early and shifting Hook about is a measure of desperation, even though he played well. Beck and Scotty need more time to gel, but I suppose it's satisfying to see them get a shot together.

Gethin Jenkins and Richard Hibbard were absolutely outstanding. Sam also had a very good game. Justin Tipuric was on the pitch 14 minutes and made 7 tackles, the second-most of any player. Tell me he's not a remarkable human being.

I'd like to see Owen Williams start at 13 next week. Granted, he's been injured, but apparently he should be fit this week, and he's the next-best specialist 13 we've got, experienced or otherwise. We threw Jonathan Davies in the deep end at 13 against Argentina after just two caps whilst the Lions were gone, and look how that turned out. Hopefully history repeats itself.
 
A very enjoyable game. Thought Wales held their own pretty well, but the scoreline reflected the match accurately. They 'should' win their next three matches and I think they will. Shame there weren't any tries vs S.A. but a okay performance nonetheless. Not sure that Gatland's excuse that the game is "like a pre-season" can be used. The Blues have beaten Toulon, the Scarlets have beaten Quins, a third of the team play in England and France. Just my thoughts.
 
So after a nights sleep I'm still hugely disappointed. SA were there for the taking, they didn't play particularly well, and we controlled possession. We made enough line breaks to win the game, but there was a lack of control and accuracy in our play once those line breaks had been made to convert them into more than 3 point scores. If our attacking game relies on just three players (Roberts, Davies and Cuthbert), then something needs to change.

It's going to be interesting to see who Gatland brings into the squad after these injuries. We know Davies is out, whilst Liam Williams, Adam Jones and Scott Andrews have question marks over them. I will not be happy if Hook is played at fullback again, he's just not secure enough under the high ball, so if Liam Williams doesn't recover, we either need to bring in another wing so Halfpenny can move back to fullback, or Byrne needs to come in to play at fullback.

On the wing, the choices are Harry Robinson, Halam Amos or Jordan Williams. Tbh, I'd prefer to see Halfpenny play on the wing with Byrne at fullback than any one of them playing. Another option could be Biggar playing at fullback. He'd be a better option than Hook imo as he's better under the high ball, although I feel he needs to come in at 10 after Priestland's direction-less display against the Boks.

It's unlikely that another centre will be called up with Beck, S. Williams, O. Williams, Allen and Hook all able to cover the position. There's also the possibility of North playing at 13, but with 3 wingers already crocked, he's probably needed on the wing.

I also expect to see Samson Lee brought in to cover Adam Jones' and Scott Andrews' injuries, which isn't necessarily a bad thing.
 
Samson Lee, Rhodri Jones, Hallam Amos and Tom Prydie have been called in.

I agree, Dull, we need to add some options with our attacking game being reliant on four players, and only North was on the pitch yesterday, and he didn't see the ball. I think this autumn is a prime time to add some weapons to the arsenal, considering the 'big' scalp has already passed us by. Hopefully we can make one or two experiments and develop players and sneak three wins. I'd like to see Owen Williams playing, as said. I just posted my full team on the other thread, but I'm not actually overly disappointed with yesterdays result, considering how it looks to be going around the 20 minute mark.
 
My 2c

Beast - difficult to judge the scrums band had a quietish game but quietly industrious TBF. 5.5/10
Bismarck - the competition for the no.2 jersey has seen some great performances from both Bismarck and Strauss with Du Plessis making a huge impact for the Bokke. Bit quiet in the 2nd half though one has to give credit to the dragons. The 2 starting hookers and FdP are the MotM candidates IMO. 8.5/10
Malherbe - again, the scrums were a mess but it felt like he held his own and even had his opposite's number as IMO Jenkins was the main culprit ITO collapsing the scrum. Missed a tackle or two (but still an improvement on D from JdP) but otherwise held his own in a good enough debut. I hope HM retains him so we can get a clearer picture and see if he can build on his performance; we've seen more industry from him at a lower level and I think he deserves a another chance to show if he can bring that into test rugby. Maybe if even off the bench behind Oosthuizen. 4.5/10
Flip van der Merwe -
I was the 1st one to be shouting "WTF!?!" when his name was listed to start ahead of both Bakkies Botha and PSdT while shifting Etzebeth out a place but I will admit he was the pick of the locks on the weekend. I still don't think he has had these performances consistently enough to warrant long term selection and has had his chances but he had a good, impactful game although as with the rest of the Boks had a quiet game after the opening 20. Solid in the line-out throughout the match 7/10
Eben Etzebeth
- a quiet game for Etzebeth and one in which he has been outshone on defense by every other forward (Malherbe has the same tackle complete stat but made more tackles). His discipline looked a bit better but TBH I'd rather have him bump heads and get really stuck in than what we saw on Saturday. 4/10
Francois Louw -
had a very good game apart from that silly silly yellow card- what was that all about!?! He was his usual self on the deck and very solid on defense. I was dissappointed in his losing his cool though as I see/saw him as a long term captaincy option. We didn't concede points during his time off but it killed our momentum IMO and made us go into a 'containment' mindset rather than build on a solid start. 4/10 (yes, I am being hard on ill discipline)
Willem Alberts -
most tackles for SA and he does not just make a tackle but stops opposition momentum dead in its tracks. Wales contained him well with ball in hand but for his impact on defense alone he is my pick of the SA backrows. 7/10
Duane Vermeulen -
Vermeulen made the hard yards where the Welsh pack contained the big SA ball carriers very well overall. Solid if not spectacular and along with Alberts and Louw makes for a very industrious backrow for its size where all share the load. 6.5/10
Fourie du Preez -
Superb. His superiority and impact over that of opposite Mike Philips was the difference in this match and I really think we'd have lost this match if we had another 9 on the field. He remains SA's MVP. 9/10
Monre Steyn -
Had a good game before going off. I am not giving him a rating as he hadn't even had a 1/4 of a game but I think I have to eat my words that I wanted Pat Lambie to start ahead of Steyn as we went from scoring a point a minute to NOT SCORING A SINGLE POINT AFTER!! (not counting Jaque Fourie's try here). Are we really in suchh deep shishht when looking at depth in the pivots beyond FdP and Steyn?!!
Bryan Habana - oh, he could be in the run for MotM as well couldn't he! Showed his class and continues his fine form for SA! 7.5/10
Jean de Villiers -
I love him as a captain; he really is a great guy and while he does try to manage the ref, he does it in good humor and I belief in an enduring sort of way. Not his flashiest game but the Welsh dominated territory and our backs didn't have a ton of opportunity with the ball rarely going through the hands. Wether this is because of the opposition, Pat Lambie or directive from HM (who did indictae beforehand that we'll play differently than in the RC) I don't know. 6/10
Jaque Fourie -
had a very quiet game apart from the non-try but credit has to go for his doggedness in following up that kick and making the great off-load to FdP. The thing he brings though is solidity in defense and we were rarely in trouble out wide with the breaks in defense coming from the 10 and 12 channels. 5.5/10
JP Pietersen -
the outbacks had very little opportunity and in such a game you need either a game-changer like Habana or a tower in defense like Pietersen who was only outdone in the defense stats by 2 of the loose forwards. Along with the more creative Le Roux and Habana I like JPP bringing a bit of size and solidity to the back three particularly in tight games. We know he can be dangerous with ball in hand as well and is capable of making meters in the tight and standing his man under pressure at the back so even though he had a quiet game I am glad for his inclusion. 5.5/10
Pat Lambie -
looked... limited. I feel sorry for the man as he has been shuffled about and messed with but he has never delivered and that probably has to be accepted now (by him and fans) with more than 60 minutes at 10 delivering nothing despite a number of good showings at lower levels. Steyn had more inpact with 1/4 of the time while Le Roux was a step up at 15 despite playing consevatively. A standard 5/10

Willie le Roux - the only sub with enough time and opportunity to judge as the others came on while SA was 'closing up shop'. Not his usual game but that has me almost more excited seeing that he can make an impact in a tight game as well and kicking well from hand and a solid defensive game to make up for last time out. Very satisfying and encouraging though it would be nice to see the complete package and consistency. I hope he gets an extended run at 15. 6/10
 
Yet another cracking test match between these 2 rugby loving nations.

I thoroughly enjoyed the game, even with the weird calls by a retiree, the unsportsmanlike booing of the crowd towards Francois Louw, and that double yellow for the props. Let me start with that, I thought the purpose of the 23-man squads was to have 2 props on the bench and to prevent things like uncontested scrums from happening???

I think both nations should feel aggrieved by the performance of Rolland as well as his assistants. One obvious one would have been the Springboks 3rd try, where Jaque Fourie was ahead of Du Preez when he kicked the ball ahead, before showing some Samurai Skills to get the ball to Fourie Du Preez to score.

I thought both teams got away with murder at the breakdown areas. and there were plenty of times where the ball just popped out of a ruck and Rolland waved play on. Was the Ball as slippery as a bar of soap?? then why weren't there so many handling errors?

Here's my take on the Boks performance:
1. Beast, did his part in the scrums, and clearing of the rucks.
2. Bismarck once again showed that he is the Battleship we all know and enjoy watching.
3. Frans Malherbe, did some things well, got pinged a couple of times at the scrums, even though I thought he wasn't the transgressor. He had a mammoth task in his debut against a very good loosehead prop, and for such a specialist position, I thought he did a very good job. I don't miss Jannie at all.
4. Eben Etzebeth, He had a goodish game, but his temper once again got the better of him. Leave the nitty gritty stuff
5. Flip van der Merwe, One of the better performers in the forwards pack. He made some big tackles, cleared plenty of rucks and was just an overall good support player.
6. Flouw, The difference between the 2 teams IMO at the Breakdown area, apart from the handbag stuff that lead to his yellow card, he once again showed his class.
7. Willem Alberts aka the Bone Collector, Why does he always manage to play so damn good in the NH?? I think there are a bunch of sore Welsh bodies because of him.
8. Duane Vermeulen, I'm glad his form hasn't faded out. Was a tremendous asset at the breakdown and in supporting Flouw.

9. Fourie Du Preez, MOTM, the General. Welcome back!! nuff said.
10. Morne Steyn, too short on the field to make a proper contribution. Maybe his injury was a blessing in disguise?
11. Bryan Habana, Once again he showed that pace is a devastating weapon. And handing off the Jonah Lomu of the Northern Hemisphere wasn't too bad too... Hehe, I liked that very much.
12. JDV, Had a lot to deal with in this game, and a bunch of times he shot out of the defensive line, which worked well. looks like the deep playing style of the welsh backs doesn't work so well against a rush defence? there were so many gaps because of Jaque Fourie and JPP not shooting up along with the rest of the team, yet they always managed to cover and prevent the Welsh from scoring tries.
13. Jaque Fourie, apart from his great samurai skills, he had a rather poor game. Which was to be expected as this was his first international game since the 2011 World Cup.
14. JPP, probably the worst performer for the boks. A pedestrian in my view, and apart from that one break, he didn't contribute much else to the team. and he's a bloody winger!! how does a fly half outrun you JP?? that was terrible!!
15. Pat Lambie, moved to fly half earlier than expected. had a good game and his tactical kicking was spot on. still needs to work on his goal kicking though.

The bench:
I can only really comment on Willie as he was the only player that had an impact off the bench and played long enough. He showed that he can improve under the high ball.
And what a proud moment for PSDT! While many would argue that he was suppose to replace Flip, I thought HM did the right thing in subbing Etzebeth.

It was a scrappy game, and it was the type of game expected when the roof would have been open. But closing the roof, hoping to make the game more attractive, only works if the field is dry...
 
LOL, Hein. I see we have it exact opposites; I have Jaque Fourie and JPP up because of solid defense and Jean de Villiers a mark down because of rushing up when it sometimes wasn't on and missing two tackles and putting the line uner pressure. I guess it depends on persepctive and what HM wanted frm the defense to start off with; did Jean shoot up recklessly and warp the defensive line or were Fourie and JPP slow in closing the gap??
 
LOL, Hein. I see we have it exact opposites; I have Jaque Fourie and JPP up because of solid defense and Jean de Villiers a mark down because of rushing up when it sometimes wasn't on and missing two tackles and putting the line uner pressure. I guess it depends on persepctive and what HM wanted frm the defense to start off with; did Jean shoot up recklessly and warp the defensive line or were Fourie and JPP slow in closing the gap??

the 2 times JDV shot up, he rushed the Welsh defence. The one even caused a forward pause to Leigh Halfpenny. The other time the pass went behind the attacker.

The first time Jaque Fourie held back, caused Jonathan Davies to cut through and almost scoring a try. Luckily Jaque was faster than Davies and hauled him in. But I was most disappointed in JPP. He's not fit and he lost a lot of pace!
 
I don't know, the way I saw that break (if we're talking about the same one) was JdV getting stepped and beaten simple as that.
 
I don't know, the way I saw that break (if we're talking about the same one) was JdV getting stepped and beaten simple as that.

lol, could be, I haven't watched the game yet for a second time (we had a massive lightening storm since Saturday night at around 11pm until the wee hours of this morning. Had to plug everything out as our region is prone to electrical surges...

Maybe I'm a bit overcritical on Jaque. I had higher expectations of him for the game...
 
Ja, I think most - I include myself- thought of Jaque and JPP at their best and expected that but were a little weary and wasn't surprised that they were only 'half there'. A mixed bag but its great to have them available ITO depth. Its gonna be a tough balancing act for HM to get the right mix of keeping the 'old' guys match fit, sharp and in the loop while bringing in and developing the 'new' guys. It's a tough job to be sure.
 
Let me start with that, I thought the purpose of the 23-man squads was to have 2 props on the bench and to prevent things like uncontested scrums from happening???

There was 2 props on the Welsh bench. Scott Andrews replaced Adam Jones when he was injured, but Andrews was also injured and didn't come back out for the second half with Paul James packing down at tighthead.
 
There was 2 props on the Welsh bench. Scott Andrews replaced Adam Jones when he was injured, but Andrews was also injured and didn't come back out for the second half with Paul James packing down at tighthead.

I know, but this sort of thing isn't suppose to happen. The Boks had Malherbe and Guthro available even after the yellow card was given. It's just strange to see 2 props get injured, and one in the sin bin.
 
I know, but this sort of thing isn't suppose to happen. The Boks had Malherbe and Guthro available even after the yellow card was given. It's just strange to see 2 props get injured, and one in the sin bin.

Had Rolland officiated the scrum correctly from the off the issue of Wales and not having 'another' prop on the bench would not have arisen. Infact I would argue that Rolland let the game down allowing an international match to go down to uncontested scrums like that. Fact remains it could have been a different tale had Paul James not agreed to play at tight head. Could have had a second half full on uncontested scrums.
 
Had Rolland officiated the scrum correctly from the off the issue of Wales and not having 'another' prop on the bench would not have arisen. Infact I would argue that Rolland let the game down allowing an international match to go down to uncontested scrums like that. Fact remains it could have been a different tale had Paul James not agreed to play at tight head. Could have had a second half full on uncontested scrums.

yeah, Rolland made a real shambles of the Scrums. Luckily he's retiring now.
 
The scrums were such a bloody lottery under him I almost didn't mind the uncontested scrums TBH; it certainly took away an aspect of the game but at least the results wouldn't have been down to the whims of the man.
 

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