Eurocup poll

[Amiga500]

Nice try Rats, but i think when it all boils down, all the PRL are doing is implementing an agreed condition within the Premiership which is a binding contract and follows the Law as per the IRB's own Regulation 9 covering the agreed upon release of players from their domestic obligations for International matches.

So dont blame the PRL....blame the IRB.

Hold on, there is an agreed international window, if a union sets up a game outside that window they cannot expect the players club/region to support this, its an unfair demand.

You guys are missing his point.

If the clubs wanted their players playing international rugby, they would be encouraging George North to play for Wales; irrespective of the IRB window.


The question you need to ask yourselves is; "if there were no IRB window, would the club release the players if there was no clause in the contract?"

Another question you might want to ask yourselves (and I suppose, all the rest of us ask ourselves too) is; "would I want my club to...?"


[and for the latter, as regards myself, I have to admit... its far from an immediate "yes"!]

 

[Amiga500]

No its a body enforcing the rules that everyone agreed to.

Correct. I find no fault with PRL enforcing their rules.

I would take issue with the rule, but not the enforcing of it.

 

[McTallshort]

I would take issue with the WRU hosting a game outside the agreed window, you cannot have unconditional support from your domestic clubs/regions as its not sustainable thats why you have agreemants without them clubs/regions/unions cannot effectively plan their seasons.

 

[Amiga500]

I would take issue with the WRU hosting a game outside the agreed window

So would I; but that is a completely different argument.

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

I think it sets a bad precedent.

If we look at football, clubs have gradually chipped away at international football. Nowadays friendlies are considered meaningless because clubs got their way. Internationals are played on Fridays and Tuesdays because clubs got their way. Ask the casual fan who Lionel Messi and Cristiano Ronaldo play for and they'll say Barcelona and Real Madrid rather than Argentina and Portugal. 20+ years ago if asked the same question about Diego Maradona and Pele, the answer would have been Argentina and Brazil rather than their club teams. I don't want to see that happen in rugby.

I think the Euro Rugby power struggle and fining Northampton over George North are different aspects of the same argument. Clubs want more power. Unions don't want to give it to them. Northampton are being fined in a way for obliging another Union

 

[McTallshort]

Nothing to do with clubs getting their way its about a club breaking the rules set by its governing body. Don't see the doomsday vision you descibe above

 

[Peat]

The bad precedent was set when the RFU and PRL agreed on this together. This is merely the inevitable ending, the numerous blockings of international release prior to this are probably even worse.

Also, allowing clubs to form agreements with whoever they like over when to release players probably hands more power to them long term.

 

[osullie6]

It's worth pointing out that Northampton probably wouldn't have been able to sign George North unless they guaranteed him release for all Welsh internationals and training camps. Also, as international release is written into his contract, Northampton are likely to get fined on any occasion that Wales have a match outside the international window for the next three years. The same problem could arise with Hibbard and Gloucester, along with any other Welsh internationals that move to English clubs.

Long term this could cause some bad feeling between the the PRL clubs, either as a result of persistent fines, or as a result of their not feeling able to sign frontline Welsh internationals.

There's an even bigger potential ****storm with this if the Welsh regions end up joining the Premiership.

 

[Amiga500]

Don't see the doomsday vision you descibe above

Don't see it or don't want to admit it?

 

[Peat]

Don't see it or don't want to admit it?

I don't see it. This has been running for six years without anyone caring too much or any doomsday happening.

 

[Amiga500]

I don't see it. This has been running for six years without anyone caring too much or any doomsday happening.

Its not an overnight change of course.

~30 years ago international & representative rugby was the undisputed pinnacle. People would leave their jobs to go on extensive Lions tours lasting several months.

~20 years ago, the Lions switched to the shortened tour format to deal with the demands of professional clubs wanting their players.

~10 years ago, some European rugby unions started introducing policies of selecting players only playing club rugby under the control of the union in question so international call-ups would not be an issue.

~5 years ago the IRB had to introduce the test window to try and ensure the clubs would release players for internationals. It started to become noticeable that players moving abroad had to get contract clauses ensuring release for internationals and international camps.


Now - we can all make arguments on the above being reasonable, and indeed, most of the actions are reasonable. But every single one of them is consistent in one aspect - the movement of importance away from International or representative rugby (how are the Barbarians getting on these days anyone?).

 

[Peat]

The tide is shifting but I don't see how the continued reliance of PRL on the RFU is part of it. I'd be far more worried if the PRL thought they could rewrite agreements between themselves and the RFU at the drop of a hat.

 

[Maverick1987]

Its not an overnight change of course.

~30 years ago international & representative rugby was the undisputed pinnacle. People would leave their jobs to go on extensive Lions tours lasting several months.

~20 years ago, the Lions switched to the shortened tour format to deal with the demands of professional clubs wanting their players.

~10 years ago, some European rugby unions started introducing policies of selecting players only playing club rugby under the control of the union in question so international call-ups would not be an issue.

~5 years ago the IRB had to introduce the test window to try and ensure the clubs would release players for internationals. It started to become noticeable that players moving abroad had to get contract clauses ensuring release for internationals and international camps.


Now - we can all make arguments on the above being reasonable, and indeed, most of the actions are reasonable. But every single one of them is consistent in one aspect - the movement of importance away from International or representative rugby (how are the Barbarians getting on these days anyone?).

Tbh I think the lions should be knocked on the head along with the baa baas . It's had its day unfortunately . I'd much rather see England win the 6N than see another lions tour with gatland and Farrell in charge lol

But still as long as the IRB maintain that the clubs must release players during certain windows of the year international rugby will be fine

Chill your beans

 

[McTallshort]

Its not an overnight change of course.

~30 years ago international & representative rugby was the undisputed pinnacle. People would leave their jobs to go on extensive Lions tours lasting several months.

~20 years ago, the Lions switched to the shortened tour format to deal with the demands of professional clubs wanting their players.

~10 years ago, some European rugby unions started introducing policies of selecting players only playing club rugby under the control of the union in question so international call-ups would not be an issue.

~5 years ago the IRB had to introduce the test window to try and ensure the clubs would release players for internationals. It started to become noticeable that players moving abroad had to get contract clauses ensuring release for internationals and international camps.


Now - we can all make arguments on the above being reasonable, and indeed, most of the actions are reasonable. But every single one of them is consistent in one aspect - the movement of importance away from International or representative rugby (how are the Barbarians getting on these days anyone?).

We'are all Doomed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[St George]

I've just seen the news....it's official....there is no disputing the evidence....




















THE PRL ARE TO BLAME FOR GLOBAL WARMING.

 

[Amiga500]

We'are all Doomed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I've just seen the news....it's official....there is no disputing the evidence....

THE PRL ARE TO BLAME FOR GLOBAL WARMING.

So are Laurel & Hardy disputing that the points made didn't happen?

Are they disputing that they signal a slide in the relative importance of international/representative rugby in comparison to the club game?

Or are they sticking their heads in the sand and ignoring all points contrary to their own views?

 

[McTallshort]

So are Laurel & Hardy disputing that the points made didn't happen?

Are they disputing that they signal a slide in the relative importance of international/representative rugby in comparison to the club game?

Or are they sticking their heads in the sand and ignoring all points contrary to their own views?

To be honest Amiga your getting very boring, so you dont like the PRL? right we get it! You think everyone should adopt the Irish regional model? OK we get that too!

But please stop being such sanctimonious bore. Over the last few months you have shown very little respect to opinions that oppose yours so dont expect people to take your views on this seriously. You want people to respect your posts? Then show some respect yourself. Peace

 

[j_remos]

So are Laurel & Hardy disputing that the points made didn't happen?

Are they disputing that they signal a slide in the relative importance of international/representative rugby in comparison to the club game?

Or are they sticking their heads in the sand and ignoring all points contrary to their own views?

I don't agree that Internationals were ever that important. Perhaps in other countries, i cant possibly comment, but in England a game Vs Wales, Aus or NZ every so often was very important but Bath Vs Gloucester or similar was always WAR. The International game is and always will be the Pinnacle but day to day for many people there Local club is there main focus.

Its all very simple, We have an International window... During that period no Clubs should be playing in top tier competitions (League / Cup) .. Perfect time for development games. Outside the window NO Internationals should be played. Seems easy to me. I don't want the International game to end up like cricket.. Too many games.

 

[Tony Manx]

. I don't want the International game to end up like cricket.. Too many games.

Already has.....................

 

[McTallshort]

Already has.....................

Very true! England are playing NZ 3 times this Summer and one of those times will be with a depleted team (another test outside the international window) its just too much.