European Qualification 2010/11

An Tarbh · Apr 18, 2010

So only 1 round left in the Top 14 and 2 rounds for most in the Magners and Guinness Premiership and we've still some outstanding qualification issues for next seasons competition.

This is the first season where the new changes from the ERC have come in, so England and France get 6 places each, Ireland and Wales have 3, while Italy and Scotland have 2.

5 of England's places are sorted with Leicester, Northampton, Saracens, Wasps and London Irish all secure in next seasons competition leaving Bath, Harlequins and Gloucester to fight it out for the last automatic spot. If Wasps win the Challenge Cup an extra spot will be granted to England meaning all but Worcester could theoretically qualify for next seasons competition.

France's qualification is sorted as far as the 6 automatic places are concerned but there's a 3 way fight for 7th spot which could guarantee qualification in the event of a French team winning either the Heineken Cup or the Amlin Challenge Cup this season.

As for the Magners League both Scottish sides qualify regardless of league position, the Ospreys, Cardiff Blues and the Dragons are all safely through following this weekend's action, while Leinster and Munster had already booked 2 of the 3 Irish spots, leaving Ulster and Connacht to battle it out for the 3rd place.

Italy will be represented by Treviso and Aironi Rugby.

Here's where the what ifs come in.

If Toulon win the Amlin Challenge Cup then France will get a 7th spot, the same would apply were Toulouse or Biarritz to win the Heineken Cup.

If 2 French sides win both competitions then Gloucester would qualify as the highest team in the ERC rankings that hasn't yet qualified by right. We'd have the same outcome if 2 Irish provinces win in May.

An Irish win in either competition guarantees 4 spots for next season.

The only way now for the Scarlets to qualify is if the Blues win the Challenge Cup, although given they're away to Wasps in the semi-final, that's no easy task.

Right I'd better quit while I'm ahead or I'll start confusing myself.

munstermuffin · Apr 19, 2010

Is it given now that Italy are always guaranteed 2spots now and this stupid playoff thing at end of season between ML team and Italian team is gone.

Italian regions will be strong and after 2/3years in ML will make serious strides forward.

Teh Mite · Apr 19, 2010

Simple as that then.

So working on the theory that Wasps & Toulouse win the Heinekiddy and the Heineken respectively, it'll be 7 English, 7 French, 3 Irish, 3 Welsh and the usual from the other 2.

So;
Tigers,
Saints,
Sarries,
Wasps,
Irish,
Bath,
Gloucester*,
Toulon,
USAP,
Clermont,
Castres,
Racing-Metro,
Biarritz,*
Munster,
Leinster,
Ulster,
Ospreys,
Newport,
Blues,
Glasgow,
Edinburgh,
Treviso,
Viadana.

*Maybe Connaught/Scarlets

Right... Brain not melting I don't think:

So when is positional qualification for the HEC going to count in the Magners league instead of "country-by-country" elitism?

munstermuffin · Apr 19, 2010

Bullitt I don't think that will ever happen like IRFU will always want atleast 3 provinces and same applies to WRU where as Scotland and Italy only have 2each to offer.

Next fun bit will be the seedings.

lynam1104 · Apr 19, 2010

if leinster/munster win the hinken cup and then everbody in the alim cups dies except for Connaught / Carr some how win the thing for them, where do the extra places go? France and england rite.

TRF_Olyy · Apr 19, 2010

From what i understand it goes to the next highest non-qualified team, based on ERC standings

An Tarbh · Apr 19, 2010

lynam1104 said:
if leinster/munster win the hinken cup and then everbody in the alim cups dies except for Connaught / Carr some how win the thing for them, where do the extra places go? France and england rite.

actually if Connacht and Leinster/Munster both win, Biarritz will get the next spot as they'd be the highest ranked team in the ERC rankings not qualified, where they finish in the league is irrelevant.

Feicarsinn · Apr 19, 2010

Bullitt said:
Simple as that then.

So working on the theory that Wasps & Toulouse win the Heinekiddy and the Heineken respectively, it'll be 7 English, 7 French, 3 Irish, 3 Welsh and the usual from the other 2.

So;
Tigers,
Saints,
Sarries,
Wasps,
Irish,
Bath,
Gloucester*,
Toulon,
USAP,
Clermont,
Castres,
Racing-Metro,
Biarritz,*
Munster,
Leinster,
Ulster,
Ospreys,
Newport,
Blues,
Glasgow,
Edinburgh,
Treviso,
Viadana.

*Maybe Connaught/Scarlets

Right... Brain not melting I don't think:

So when is positional qualification for the HEC going to count in the Magners league instead of "country-by-country" elitism?

As soon as the GP gets its allocation reduced to 4 for producing sub par teams for the competition.

iWin · Apr 20, 2010

I never thought I'd be cheering for Wasps, but if we get 7th, and they win, would that mean quins go through?

Teh Mite · Apr 20, 2010

feicarsinn said:
As soon as the GP gets its allocation reduced to 4 for producing sub par teams for the competition.

Funny how 1 season breads cockiness:

Records:

Wins (Team nationality):
England: 6
France: 4
Ireland: 4

Runners up:
France: 8
England: 2
Ireland: 1
Wales: 1

And that's despite having a season saying "we don't want to play.

So:

monkeypigeon · Apr 20, 2010

Bullitt said:
Funny how 1 season breads cockiness:

Records:

Wins (Team nationality):
England: 6
France: 4
Ireland: 4

Runners up:
France: 8
England: 2
Ireland: 1
Wales: 1

And that's despite having a season saying "we don't want to play.

There's a glaring fault in your argument. Just because one English team won it that on each of those years, doesn't mean that the other teams were good. (I'll obviously accept that other teams were perhaps also good on some of these years)

Also, the Armies of Alexander the Great have won more battles than the Korean People's Army, doesn't mean that they're still a better army now...how have English teams (minus Leicester) done in the last 2-3 years?

So:

Teh Mite · Apr 20, 2010

As many English teams have won it as Celtic teams have reached finals. Does this mean they're not good enough either?

Feicarsinn · Apr 20, 2010

They should give me some kind of fisherman's medal or something.

Feicarsinn · Apr 20, 2010

Bullitt said:
As many English teams have won it as Celtic teams have reached finals. Does this mean they're not good enough either?

On a serious note, your arguement is based on old statistics. Fact of the matter is that English teams have perfomed pretty poorly over the last 4 years or so, pretty much since the last of the World Cup vintage collapsed actually. Leicester and Wasps are shadows of their former selves while none of the clubs around the bottom half of the table would, in my opinion, present much of a challenge to their Magners counterparts. Northampton seem to be the only ones show signs of developing into a seriously good teas with many pretenders such as Irish, Harlequins and Sarries flattering to decieve a bit as of recently.

I'd say it's the poorest of Europe's 3 big leagues at the moment and while that is of course subject to change from season to season, there appears to be a serious lack of home grown and imported talent in the GP at the moment.

SelimNiai · Apr 20, 2010

feicarsinn said:
They should give me some kind of fisherman's medal or something.

Would it be a "bream" come true.

Ok that was awful but it was the best I could come up with at short notice

When I say best....

Teh Mite · Apr 20, 2010

feicarsinn said:
On a serious note, your arguement is based on old statistics. Fact of the matter is that English teams have perfomed pretty poorly over the last 4 years or so, pretty much since the last of the World Cup vintage collapsed actually. Leicester and Wasps are shadows of their former selves while none of the clubs around the bottom half of the table would, in my opinion, present much of a challenge to their Magners counterparts. Northampton seem to be the only ones show signs of developing into a seriously good teas with many pretenders such as Irish, Harlequins and Sarries flattering to decieve a bit as of recently.

I'd say it's the poorest of Europe's 3 big leagues at the moment and while that is of course subject to change from season to season, there appears to be a serious lack of home grown and imported talent in the GP at the moment.

It was inevitable that the English clubs would fall by the wayside eventually as the salary cap only succeeds in scuppering the teams who can afford both the international players and the backup-squad of decent standard. As a league competition it is fantastic - easily the most competitive - but on a pan-European basis it suffers because of what it is. There simply isn't the capacity to compete on the various fronts all season.

However, all this talk that relegation is the reason is utter tosh. The French seem to cope alright.

As for Tigers, I'd imagine if they were playing at the start of the season to the standard they are now they would've have been much more competitive. Wasps without the success aren't able to maintain their financial model.

Peaks and troughs - something eventually will have to give once the RFU realise what the Irish did and push the strength of the teams in Europe as a direct resemblance to improvement in the international team.

munstermuffin · Apr 20, 2010

Bullit your record must be wrong because i suffered heartbreak twice in Final (Leicester and Saints)

But agree comment was wrong as in Munster and Leinster will always be there but that like saying Leicester and well GP always has 1 major form team be it Saints, Gloucester in past as have Sale Quins etc.
And I think English GP deserve 6 as they have more teams and there top 6 teams are better than Connacht or Wales bottom region.

Also don't think we can rate teams on win's.
Like I not boasting but Munster are #1 seed in ERC because we consistent and that matters more than win's in ranking and rating.

Like in my opinion Munster are better than Leicester (not saying they bad at all) despite both having 2 ***les.
And despite Toulouse having 3 I believe they on par over history (not basing it on current season events)