Ex-Blue Bulls 'went on axe-murdering rampage'

[Seaton]

Personally I think the justice system as it is doesn't work. Countries have finite resources and a lot of money is spent on so-called rehabilitation of seriously bad people. If you can for 100% sure remove the right people who actually committed the most heinous crimes, then why the heck not? They'll never do it again.

There's a reason why crime was never as bad as it is right now world-wide and the guilty party is excess of liberty and envy of what you haven't strived for. Society had it's bad times decades ago, but it was never this bad, partly because many people now aren't brought up right, covet what they have never earned and have access to things like bad stimulants, bad social environments and un-righteous anger.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^ This

Nail on the head

@ Ezequiel

That Samurai sword incident really freaked me out, especially as I used to be in the same class as a guy who collected all sorts of blades :mellow:

 

[profitius]

Personally I think the justice system as it is doesn't work. Countries have finite resources and a lot of money is spent on so-called rehabilitation of seriously bad people. If you can for 100% sure remove the right people who actually committed the most heinous crimes, then why the heck not? They'll never do it again.

There's a reason why crime was never as bad as it is right now world-wide and the guilty party is excess of liberty and envy of what you haven't strived for. Society had it's bad times decades ago, but it was never this bad, partly because many people now aren't brought up right, covet what they have never earned and have access to things like bad stimulants, bad social environments and un-righteous anger.

The PC brigade have alot to answer for.

Years ago people policed themselves. If there was a problem family in the area the community would group together and drive them out of the area. You can't do that nowadays because they have "human rights". So they're now free to make the lives of everyone a misery.

 

[TNT88]

South Africa's own political failures don't discredit human rights or modern legal systems though.

I'm pretty sure that given the choice, most people would choose to live in a society that contains a government run legal system than a place where communities took the law into their own hands.

 

[LPsoldier ZA]

I don't know where the hell people get the info that he is a former Springbok...he was hardly a feature at the Bulls...he played most of his 'career' at the SWD Eagles in George. People should stop sensationalising the headlines to their stories...

 

[ranger]

The PC brigade have alot to answer for.

Years ago people policed themselves. If there was a problem family in the area the community would group together and drive them out of the area. You can't do that nowadays because they have "human rights". So they're now free to make the lives of everyone a misery.

Then again, how many innocent men were persecuted.. Its definitely a balance thats needed.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...-Springbok-went-on-axe-murdering-rampage.html

"A South African former international rugby player"


Do you know who it is, then? I thought it hadn't been released

 

[TRF C A Iversen]

South Africa's own political failures don't discredit human rights or modern legal systems though.

I'm pretty sure that given the choice, most people would choose to live in a society that contains a government run legal system than a place where communities took the law into their own hands.

The modern legal system has often discredited itself. OJ didn't happen for one example?

Governmental law and a persons moral right to respond to a devastating crime upon them in some strong ways are not mutually exclusive of each other. As said earlier, in instances where 100% certainty of guilt was proven, some criminals are beyond petty theft, or assault and have gone so almightily far as to have done enough to deserve the vengeance of the community. You can have law and government, but government must protect those who pursue peace, prosperity, creativity and vision, not thugs, murderers of the innocent or drug hazed, sexual predators and the like.

Part, a large part, but not all of the problems of society falls at the feet of the excesses of political correctness and the web of holes which is the justice system.

The excess of rights given towards those who exploit the law is what is wasting time and financial resources society desperately needs in these times, for health care, education and employment for both the weak and courageous members of society who are self-evidently the polar opposite of the people who are out to take what they want and destroy lives.

 

[profitius]

South Africa's own political failures don't discredit human rights or modern legal systems though.

I'm pretty sure that given the choice, most people would choose to live in a society that contains a government run legal system than a place where communities took the law into their own hands.

The societies of the past were friendlier, safer and generally happier places to live even taking into account things like living conditions. Legal systems are great for lawyers and criminals getting off on technicalities because theres not too much common sense involved.

Of course you have the other extreme too where people were hanged for stealing a slice of bread. A better balance is needed.

 

[LPsoldier ZA]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...-Springbok-went-on-axe-murdering-rampage.html

"A South African former international rugby player"


Do you know who it is, then? I thought it hadn't been released

Joseph Ntshongwana

Wow, what a Springbok he was...

 

[TNT88]

The societies of the past were friendlier, safer and generally happier places to live even taking into account things like living conditions. Legal systems are great for lawyers and criminals getting off on technicalities because theres not too much common sense involved.

Of course you have the other extreme too where people were hanged for stealing a slice of bread. A better balance is needed.

What part of the current system do you think we should scrap?

I seriously cannot think of a medieval community i'd like to copy when it comes to law-making. Australian Aboriginals were certainly happier people, but they had seriously F#cked up morals and laws, not that it's their fault. It's all they knew at the time.

 

[TRF_Cymro]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-12920189

Detailed account.

 

[TRF_Ezequiel]

Joseph Ntshongwana

Wow, what a Springbok he was...

If it was a black-on-black crime, at least we can safely say the Apartheid-card won't be played on this

 

[TNT88]

The modern legal system has often discredited itself. OJ didn't happen for one example

Governmental law and a persons moral right to respond to a devastating crime upon them in some strong ways are not mutually exclusive of each other. As said earlier, in instances where 100% certainty of guilt was proven, some criminals are beyond petty theft, or assault and have gone so almightily far as to have done enough to deserve the vengeance of the community. You can have law and government, but government must protect those who pursue peace, prosperity, creativity and vision, not thugs, murderers of the innocent or drug hazed, sexual predators and the like.

Part, a large part, but not all of the problems of society falls at the feet of the excesses of political correctness and the web of holes which is the justice system.

The excess of rights given towards those who exploit the law is what is wasting time and financial resources society desperately needs in these times, for health care, education and employment for both the weak and courageous members of society who are self-evidently the polar opposite of the people who are out to take what they want and destroy lives.

Whats your alternative then? I don't argue that our legal system is perfect, but i'd hate to go back in time when it comes to laws.

In this case, if the man who was randomly attacked on the street was your family member (see the OP article). Would you be supporting his right to take the law into his own hands?

ETA: Sorry, the man who was slashed was one of his (potential) rape targets. Guess i could find another case, but for now i'll just leave it. Don't reply to it if you don't want to.

 

[TRF_Ezequiel]

I don't support taking the law into your own hands but I can understand where he is coming from if the legal system doesn't punish the guys who raped and killed (safe to say they killed her if they gave her HIV) his daughter.

We all get a little crazy when it comes to our children. I think I would have done the same if someone did something to my boy and they wouldn't be punished

 

[TRF C A Iversen]

Whats your alternative then? I don't argue that our legal system is perfect, but i'd hate to go back in time when it comes to laws.

In this case, if the man who was randomly attacked on the street was your family member (see the OP article). Would you be supporting his right to take the law into his own hands?

The man in the street is not the basis of what I've been saying. If in instances of (for example) what has happened to this man's daughter, the absolute 100% verifiable perpetrators were found, I'd be all for giving the father his vengeance. There are some crimes that are punished exceedingly poorly and many gotten away with on technicalities.

I'm not going to go into a huge and detailed plan of my view of a fictional justice system, but there are actually many good lawyers who think if much of the current system was redesigned from the ground up it'd be a hell of a lot better than the entanglement of 100's of years of precedents and loopholes we currently have. It's never going to happen though. It'd be impossible to go through a transitionary phase.

 

[TNT88]

I don't support taking the law into your own hands but I can understand where he is coming from if the legal system doesn't punish the guys who raped and killed (safe to say they killed her if they gave her HIV) his daughter.

We all get a little crazy when it comes to our children. I think I would have done the same if someone did something to my boy and they wouldn't be punished

I don't doubt this is the case.

However, is the way forward going back in time. Or furthering our current legal system into a more transparent/non corrupt/consistent/stronger model.

 

[Feicarsinn]

Personally I think the justice system as it is doesn't work. Countries have finite resources and a lot of money is spent on so-called rehabilitation of seriously bad people. If you can for 100% sure remove the right people who actually committed the most heinous crimes, then why the heck not? They'll never do it again.

There's a reason why crime was never as bad as it is right now world-wide and the guilty party is excess of liberty and envy of what you haven't strived for. Society had it's bad times decades ago, but it was never this bad, partly because many people now aren't brought up right, covet what they have never earned and have access to things like bad stimulants, bad social environments and un-righteous anger.

Disagree. Things like the holocaust, the great leap forward or the inflicted famine on the Ukraine weren't bad? Rampant accepted racism? Ridiculous levels of sexism, ageism and other forms of prejudice allowed to happen? Higher levels of poverty, starvation and illness?

On a more down to earth level, crime rates in the developed world have stayed pretty consistant for the last few decades. In the US for example, crime rates have been in decline since the 80's. Fact is, more crimes are probably reported these days than ever before.

 

[TNT88]

The man in the street is not the basis of what I've been saying. If in instances of (for example) what has happened to this man's daughter, the absolute 100% verifiable perpetrators were found, I'd be all for giving the father his vengeance. There are some crimes that are punished exceedingly poorly and many gotten away with on technicalities.

I'm not going to go into a huge and detailed plan of my view of a fictional justice system, but there are actually many good lawyers who think if much of the current system was redesigned from the ground up it'd be a hell of a lot better than the entanglement of 100's of years of precedents and loopholes we currently have. It's never going to happen though. It'd be impossible to go through a transitionary phase.

If the 100% verifiable perpetrators were found, i would be pushing for state punishment, not personal vengeance. This is where we disagree, both sides have their ups and downs.

In this case, i would only support (or not condemn) this mans actions if he was 99% sure and had proof to back it up. But if he didn't, i think he shouldn't be out on the streets with an axe getting revenge.

 

[monkeypigeon]

Disagree. Things like the holocaust, the great leap forward or the inflicted famine on the Ukraine weren't bad? Rampant accepted racism? Ridiculous levels of sexism, ageism and other forms of prejudice allowed to happen? Higher levels of poverty, starvation and illness?

On a more down to earth level, crime rates in the developed world have stayed pretty consistant for the last few decades. In the US for example, crime rates have been in decline since the 80's. Fact is, more crimes are probably reported these days than ever before.

Important point there. People are more likely to report many crimes these days. The same actions were happening 50 years ago, they were just less likely to be reported (or perhaps even be crimes at all).

 

[TRF_Cymro]

Apparently the bloke in question had been stalking the people for some time. Can't but help imagining that Liam Neeson scene in the film Taken where he speaks to the people that captured his daughter.

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