• Help Support The Rugby Forum :

Former England International faces deportation

TRF_heineken

RIP #J9
Staff member
TRF Legend
Joined
Apr 9, 2010
Messages
11,758
Country Flag
South Africa
Club or Nation
South Africa
London - Former England international Hendre Fourie and his family are facing deportation because his visa expired with his decision to retire last week.

The South African-born Sale Sharks flank, capped eight times during an injury-plagued career, was forced to announce his retirement following an unsuccessful recovery from a third operation on a chronic shoulder injury.

According to the ESPNScrum website, the 33-year-old, who initially moved to England in 2005, had hoped to embark on a new career as a teacher, but has now been told he must leave the country by the end of the month.

"I can play for England but I can't get a passport to stay in the country," Fourie told The Times. "If I had remained on a sports people visa for another two years, I would have got permanent residency, but unless someone is willing to give me another contract, that is not going to happen."

"My wife (Corlia) is South African, but my boy was born here and I would have like to have stayed and tried to get a teaching job. There were options to appeal but I would have had to wait another few years before I could get my permanent residency. It has been a red-tape nightmare and we just decided it was not worth all the hassle.

Fourie was born in Burgersdorp in the Eastern Cape.

Man that's tough... Oh well, he can always be a teacher in SA. the pay is just very crappy
 
Seems a bit silly that he represented England yet can't stay in the country.
 
A bit absurd that he was good enough to represent the country in test rugby but not good enough for citizenship. He is rumored to be coming back to SA to farm and has some business dealings if I understood his sister correctly a while ago.
 
No one should be able to play for any country without full citizenship.
 
Ah, test rugby. That iconic barometer of national pride and rigid qualification stipulations...
 
Manu Tuilagi was very nearly deported a couple of years back. So that's two England internationals who've had to face deportation.
 
No one should be able to play for any country without full citizenship.

That would stop pretty much all 'poaching' debates once and for all.
Admittedly, it could not be implemented, given the varying requirements for citizenship.
 
Last edited:
The IRB should at least look into upping residency to 5 years and lowering the grandparent rule to parents only. I think this would end some of the more egregious project player issues.
 
This is not - or rather should not, imo - be an "omg the IRB regs are too lax" thing. Fourie was here for more than five years before he was first capped and could have probably applied for British citizenship in that time. And by probably, I mean I've just looked at the regs and five years is definitely enough, but I don't know how much time he spent outside the country. He could still appeal, but is choosing not to. The story here is that the Border Agency have simply gone ahead and gone "Bye!" regardless of service to country - which is a shame, but not exactly news, when you consider the story of the Gurkhas for example. The other story is that arguably Hendre Fourie is a little lazy and should have got his passport sooner which would have solved the problem.

I dislike these calls for vastly tightened regulations. I'd support an increase in residency but that's about it, and frankly some of the proposed changes would do very little but could cause problems. Citizenship rules vary widely from country to country. Some countries allow people to claim citizenship through a grandparent, which could leave us with the amusing case of someone being a citizen but unable to play for their country if you made it parents only without including citizenship. And plenty of people have dual citizenship. Also, make it citizen only, and you then need an entire sub-section of the regulations to cover the case of GB&NI, where we are all British citizens. I believe strongly that nationality is a fickle beast in this day and age and would rather maintain more liberal regulations and allow the odd joke case through than tighten things up and start barring people from representing a nationality they rightfully identify with.

It's not like there's widespread abuse of the current regulations either. People act like there is, but there's not. Imo, I can think of only two three year residences and two dodgy grandparent calls in recent years - again I'm probably missing some, but considering how many international caps have been handed out, I don't think that's anything much to get worked out about imo. Oops, sorry, three, just seen Mike Harris. Still fine with it.
 
IRB needs to possible look into each country and set residency rules that better match each country specifically. Then once you play for one country you are locked there. This is a minor issue to the story. The bigger one is the RFU.

The RFU is suppose to be a leader in Rugby, built on pride, tradition, and loyalty. Yet after selecting a player for England, they did not help (or push) him to obtain what he needed to stay in England long after his rugby career ended. This shows how the RFU was only focused on the short term and about performance.

Rugby for me has been about the camaraderie. On my team we help people get jobs, find homes, and even blind dates (very rare). This is a big part at many Rugby clubs. Fourie may have been lazy, uninformed, or possible he did not think his work visa was going to be cut short. If you are selected to play for RFU (or any national team) that union should do all in its power to make sure you can always play for them, and also retire from the game with the ability to stay in the country you gave your heart and body to.

If Fourie had not played for England, would he still be able to play rugby and there for be able to qualify in 2 years for residency? We wont know...
 
This is not - or rather should not, imo - be an "omg the IRB regs are too lax" thing. Fourie was here for more than five years before he was first capped and could have probably applied for British citizenship in that time. And by probably, I mean I've just looked at the regs and five years is definitely enough, but I don't know how much time he spent outside the country. He could still appeal, but is choosing not to. The story here is that the Border Agency have simply gone ahead and gone "Bye!" regardless of service to country - which is a shame, but not exactly news, when you consider the story of the Gurkhas for example. The other story is that arguably Hendre Fourie is a little lazy and should have got his passport sooner which would have solved the problem.

I dislike these calls for vastly tightened regulations. I'd support an increase in residency but that's about it, and frankly some of the proposed changes would do very little but could cause problems. Citizenship rules vary widely from country to country. Some countries allow people to claim citizenship through a grandparent, which could leave us with the amusing case of someone being a citizen but unable to play for their country if you made it parents only without including citizenship. And plenty of people have dual citizenship. Also, make it citizen only, and you then need an entire sub-section of the regulations to cover the case of GB&NI, where we are all British citizens. I believe strongly that nationality is a fickle beast in this day and age and would rather maintain more liberal regulations and allow the odd joke case through than tighten things up and start barring people from representing a nationality they rightfully identify with.

It's not like there's widespread abuse of the current regulations either. People act like there is, but there's not. Imo, I can think of only two three year residences and two dodgy grandparent calls in recent years - again I'm probably missing some, but considering how many international caps have been handed out, I don't think that's anything much to get worked out about imo. Oops, sorry, three, just seen Mike Harris. Still fine with it.


I don't think that Fourie was lazy, his injuries prevented him from playing, and thus couldn't qualify on a sports player visa. I'm in no position to say that he could've applied for another type of visa, as I don't know for what he can apply for, nor what he's eligible for. my question is though, is he not eligible to apply for citizenship, and if he is, can they still deport him and his family during the application procedure?
 
I don't think that Fourie was lazy, his injuries prevented him from playing, and thus couldn't qualify on a sports player visa. I'm in no position to say that he could've applied for another type of visa, as I don't know for what he can apply for, nor what he's eligible for. my question is though, is he not eligible to apply for citizenship, and if he is, can they still deport him and his family during the application procedure?

My laziness comment was not aimed at him not playing when he's not fit that would be ridiculous beyond belief, it's aimed at him not tying this up definitely before this came up assuming he was free to - although possibly naive is a better word if he was gambling his entire future plans to stay fit enough to be a professional rugby player until the age of 35. Also, if this isn't him using the press to try and lean on the Border Agency (and fair play if he is), its arguably lazy of him to go "Oh yeah well I'd like to stay but I'm not going to bother with this appeal process because I hate red tape". I hate red tape too but its not exactly the bottomless pits of devotion there.

However, closer inspection reveals that to apply for British citizenship, you must be free of immigration time limits i.e. permanent residency, and that's something he doesn't have. That's 10 years of legal stay and 5 on a top sportsman's work permit, I don't know which he was working off but either way he couldn't have applied without that, which is a bummer. And presumably neither he or his wife have a British grandparent or they'd have done that already. So, fair enough, not his fault. Can't apply.

Although, as noted, he can appeal - I don't know the details, I only really know this because Fourie said so. And if he's choosing not to appeal, my sympathy is fairly limited.

edit: Except apparently Leeds got him on a work permit 1 type, presumably in 2007, and then Sale put him on a type 2 work permit when he moved... had he been on either he'd have done five years and could have already applied for permanent residency. You'd have thought an appeal on terms of aggregating the two would have legs.

There's some interesting questions about Sale's role in this imo.
 
Last edited:
This just in:

London - South African-born former England international Hendre Fourie has been told by immigration officials that he does not have to leave Britain, despite fearing he was on the brink of deportation having retired with a shoulder injury.
According to The Telegraph website, officials from the UK Border Agency contacted Fourie on Tuesday after he revealed he was moving back to South Africa because he thought his working visa had been terminated on his enforced retirement.

Fourie believed he had only 60 days from the moment his club, Sale, informed the Border Agency in December that his employment had been terminated.

But the agency told him on Tuesday that the process had not been started. It also discussed options that would enable him to remain in the UK.

"We have not curtailed Mr Fourie's visa at this time and he is not required to leave the UK," a UK Border Agency spokesperson said.

"His employment contract with Sale Rugby Club has been terminated and his employer has rightly informed UKBA of this decision. We are considering what action to take next.

"If an individual's circumstances change and they no longer meet the terms of their specific visa they can apply for a visa of a different type.

"Mr Fourie has been informed of the process and the various options available to him. It is entirely up to him if he chooses to explore any of them further."

Fourie, 33, moved to England in 2005 and had hoped to embark on a new career as a teacher following his retirement.

He was capped eight times for England before retiring after two operations failed to cure a long-standing shoulder injury. He was living in Britain on a "sports people visa" that was due to expire in June.

Fourie's wife is South African, but his son was born in the UK.

So it looks like the drama has been sorted out... And now it's up to FOurie to pursue the matter further.
 
Jeezz, I can't help but think Hendre Fourie has come off somewhat stupid after this. Not only did he say living in England was essentially 'not worth it', but he didn't even really look at his options. I mean come on, before you run your mouth to the media, at least try and apply for residency through normal process.
 
Last edited:
Jeezz, I can't help but think Hendre Fourie has come off somewhat stupid after this. No only did he say living in England was essentially 'not worth it', but he didn't even really look at his options. I mean come one, before you run your mouth to the media, at least try and apply for residency through normal process.

I agree, looks like he went crying to the press for no reason, even claiming he was treated worse than a terrorist. Blokes come out of this looking like a prize muppet hope he does leave now if its "not worth the hassle" staying in the UK
 

Latest posts

Top