France, England and Pumas

[Melhor Time]

A message I recieved. Should be of interest to all global fans of our sport.

HEY PAUL, I WAS WATCHING THE RUGBY PROGRAME "SCRUM" AND I LISTENED TO GONZALO CAMACHO TALKING ABOUT WHY SO MANY ARGENTINES ARE GOING TO PLAY IN ENGLAND INSTEAD OF FRANCE. HE SAID THAT THE ENGLISH PREMIERSHIP STARTS ON SEPTEMBER AND THE FRENCH TOP 14 STARTS ON AUGUST SO THE ARGENTINES WHO ARE PLAYING THE RUGBY CHAMPIONSHIP MISS LESS GAMES BEING IN AN ENGLISH CLUB THAN IN A FRENCH CLUB, PLUS THE PREMIERSHIP GOES INTO SOME SMALL RECESS DURING THE NOVEMBER TESTS WHICH MAKES ARGENTINES AVAILABLE TO PLAY FOR THE PUMAS. AND ALSO THE PREMIERSHIP ENDS ON MAY SO ARGENTINE PLAYERS COULD EASILY BE RELEASED FOR THE JUNE TESTS TOO. ALSO I HEARD AGULLA TALKING ABOUT HOW LEICESTER TOLD HIM THAT THEY BOUGHT NEW PLAYERS WAY TOO FAST AND ASKED HIM NOT TO SIGN WITH BATH FOR MORE THAN A YEAR 'CAUSE THEY REGRET LETTING HIM GO BUT HORACIO TOLD THEM TO **** OFF 'CAUSE BATH GAVE HIM THE SECURITY OF PLAYING FOR THE PUMAS WITHOUT ANY KIND OF CONDITIONS. SEEMS LIKE THE ENGLISH CLUBS ARE PERFECT FOR ARGENTINE PLAYERS: THOSE WHO PLAY THE RUGBY CHAMPIONSHIP ONLY MISS THE FIRST MONTH OF THE ENGLISH PREMIERSHIP AND THEY CAN ALSO BE RELEASED FOR THE NOVEMBER TESTS AND THE JUNE TESTS TOO, IT'S JUST PERFECT FOR THE PUMAS SCHEDULE

Click here for more (in Spanish)

Also, I should point out that Gonzalo Camacho will be playing in the Top 14. He is to confirm one of Racing Métro or Stade Français Paris. Should he choose RM then it would likely mean a Pumas back-three with Imhoff and JMH joining him. I see more chances of him joining Paris though due to the confirmed departure of Sackey.

 

[Superalexmarket]

One of the conditions imposed by Sanzar to Argentina, is to convene the best players possible to face the RC, so if the Argentine players find an adventage playing in the Premiership , many of them will choose play there.

 

[psychic duck]

Interesting. Creevy, Senatore, Tiesi, Farías Cabello are all new Pumas to the Premiership now. By the sounds of it there could be more.

Interesting regarding Agulla as well. He really wanted to stay at Leicester, strange that Leicester asked him not to sign for Bath for a year though. If Leicester released him after his contract finished, why an earth should he have to listen to them about what club he can sign for next?

 

[Aedaphon]

Looking forward to seeing more Argentines in the Prem. However, just for the future, how is domestic Argentine rugby faring while all their best players are overseas?

Is there any prospect of domestic leagues in Argentina rising to the level of the Prem/Top14/ITM domestic competitions?

 

[Superalexmarket]

Not at this moment... maybe in the near future an argentine franchise could be incorporated at the Super Rugby, but it´s just a proyect by now...

 

[nickdnz]

Great to see a post Melhor! Interesting that players would consider the move. I'd have thought it'd be more difficult for unestablished players to get spotted by English teams - where as France seems to look more closely at Argentina (which may of course all change). Also the money is bound to be a little less enticing. Thating being said, the move would certainly be good for Argentina's national team. Still hoping Argentina will get a SR franchise for 2016 (when the television contracts will be renegotiated).

 

[Peat]

Interesting. The counter-balance is that English clubs have a cap, and the cap presumably makes paying for foreign internationals who are off for a large chunk of the season less appealling, where as a French budget can absorb that more easily. You'd have thought that if Argentine players are moving to England to improve international availability, it would involve pay cuts.

 

[djwizard84]

Just coming up to my mind. would be a good idea for argetinian rugby to have a team in each Conference, to play within the conference and perhaps to have those "international" games in Argentina against the other national teams in order to have something like the Arg-Conference.
In terms of expense would be cheaper for each team to have base in the country of their Conference and of course nowadays TV rules over Stadium ticketing so for sure there could be a good income for the Argentinian RF.
In each team could have a couple players from Brazil, Uruguay, Chile and... why not Mexico.

 

[kovana]

Why dont the Super Rugby teams open doors for the Argy boys?

1 ARGY player per SR team AT LEAST.

But greed by Sanzar.. mostly the Trans-tasman greed that is, prevents this. Pathetic. So much for trying to grow the game in ARGY.

 

[j'nuh]

Why dont the Super Rugby teams open doors for the Argy boys?

1 ARGY player per SR team AT LEAST.

But greed by Sanzar.. mostly the Trans-tasman greed that is, prevents this. Pathetic. So much for trying to grow the game in ARGY.

SANZAR produce enough players not only to support the top league in the world, but to also have a massive presence in the Top14, Premiership and Rabo. Why compete with the financial clout of France for the top contracts of Argentina when you produce enough quality internally so as to not need to compete?

 

[Big Ewis]

I hate getting into the economics and politics and logistics...etc....of an issue, but I'd sure love to see some Argentinian franchises join SRugby...

 

[BZHopenside]

The world simply needs more professional competitions. 5 pro leagues simply aren't enough to support high achieving rugby world wide.

 

[Aedaphon]

The world simply needs more professional competitions. 5 pro leagues simply aren't enough to support high achieving rugby world wide.

Top 14, Premiership, Celtic League, Super 15, ITM Cup, Japanese Top League, Russian rugby... There are certainly more than 5.

Rugby is growing worldwide but it's going to take time for the smaller, less prestigious leagues to grow. The top league really does look to be developing though, so hopefully we'll see Japan exporting more players in the near future.

Does anyone know if Argentina is coming close to professionalising its domestic rugby? The way all its talent is spread across the Premiership and the Top 14 can't be helping develop top-flight rugby in Argentina but they're certainly developing more than enough top quality players for it to be a possibility in the near future.

 

[jordiev]

talking about their players in the premiership wouldnt minf manuel montero coming over
but yeah i really hope they either get a foothold on a profesional legue or get welcomed into super rugby. run the risk of stunting the growth of a national team with some world class talent otherwise

 

[RedWhiteGreen]

If Argentina can't have sides in Super 15, surely the solution is to create a club competition encompassing the USA, Canada and Argentina?

 

[TRF_Ezequiel]

Like some sort of "Continental America competition"? I think that would be awesome. Having some teams from those 3 countries and maybe Brazil, Uruguay with a team in it as well, would really be nice to watch.

 

[RedWhiteGreen]

Like some sort of "Continental America competition"? I think that would be awesome. Having some teams from those 3 countries and maybe Brazil, Uruguay with a team in it as well, would really be nice to watch.

Yeah, exactly a Continental America competition. The much needed competition for Argentina, plus an MLS-style start for the USA and Canada.

 

[Big Ewis]

No offense to Canada or the USA teams, but they're clearly Tier 2 while Argentina is clearly Tier 1. I don't think that would help Argentina at all, and we ARE talking about ways for Argentina to get better here...sure it would be amazing for the US and Canada, but not for Argentina.
I think including Argentina in TRC was the best thing that ever happened to them, and though they didn't win a match they've certainly impressed, at times were just amazing in fact for their first ever tournament.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Argentina's tier 1 quality players would obviously stay on with their current overseas clubs.
Their domestic teams wouldn't be quite as dominant over the rest of the American teams without them.

I would love to see more done by the IRB to encourage rugby at this semi-pro/pro level in the tier 2 countries.

 

[LittleGuy]

No offense to Canada or the USA teams, but they're clearly Tier 2 while Argentina is clearly Tier 1. I don't think that would help Argentina at all, and we ARE talking about ways for Argentina to get better here...sure it would be amazing for the US and Canada, but not for Argentina.
I think including Argentina in TRC was the best thing that ever happened to them, and though they didn't win a match they've certainly impressed, at times were just amazing in fact for their first ever tournament.

Argentina are certainly a class ahead of us at the national team level, but I don't think with club sides the gulf would be that dramatic, the Canadian CRC teams have regularly beaten Argentine provincial sides in exhibition and tour games. The Canadian team also tends to play fairly well against the Jaguars side which would likely be the talent level which domestic Argentine players would be playing at.

I actually think the biggest hindrance to this league would be logistics, at the risk of being a pedantic dick, I don't think people realize the distance between Argentina/Uruguay and the USA/Canada. The time zones are close which would make matches easy to schedule but it's an 11-12 hour flight from Toronto to Buenos Aires(Toronto to Portugal/Spain is only around 6-7). Let alone from the West Coast of North America which is probably even longer. Also as someone said eariler the seasons are flipped, luckily most of South America other than the extreme South have fairly mild winters so this shouldn't be the end of the world.