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France vs All Blacks (21/11/21) 09.00am NZDT @ Stade de France, Paris

Umaga's Witness

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Don't see much point selecting Gatland, he isn't an innovating type of coach anyway, so what's he going to add to the ABs ? the ***** on the NZRU board got it wrong, it wasn't that vital we needed a coach with international coaching experience - the NZ Super rugby teams have played a very similar type of game to the ABs for yonks, which is a big reason why players find it easier to slot into the ABs fast paced game... so Robertson was the ideal candidate because of all his Super Rugby coaching experience, think he's coached the Crusaders to 5 or 6 ***les.
You just know Robertson will hammer home to them to get back to basics & do the hard yakka in the forwards... that's obviously why both Ireland & France have stuffed us in the forwards, they've done the hard work there, so we were starved of the ball.
I think everybody in the world agrees gatland is not the right fit for the all blacks.
 

miccloarch

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It’s honestly more shocking that the coaching panel they selected after the World Cup was originally only given two years. That’s not something often done by any country.

Everyone has it completely wrong to think they were ever thinking of hiring Robertson after fosters term came up; I mean I’ve said it before, but i also said it when fosters first contract was signed, the two years thing was so they could consider gatland after he had finished with the lions. Gatlands case for not being the all blacks coach was clearly better than fosters, so they resigned him. They always said they wanted international experience within the coaching panel and Robertson failed to provide that. Foster had plumtree. If brown hadn’t pulled out of the assistant gig I reckon Robertson would have got the job.
There's no reason to doubt your narrative but even if true it's just stupid politics. The NZRU hides behind those bureaucratic structures so they can hire a yes man like Foster "who had a better coaching team proposal." You wonder if they even believe that ********. Robertson is the better coach by a distance end of story. The team he had was decent and if they didn't like it they could have negotiated changes (I know it doesn't work like that but maybe it should). As you mention they probably never seriously considered him so it didn't even matter. Corrupt.
 

miccloarch

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Y’all just resigned Foster through the World Cup. Does NZRU have the funds to pay him out and hire another coach?

Giving him the extension before playing the Boks and Autumn Internationals was very odd.
I was just sh_tposting. I know there's about 1% chance Razor will be hired. If money is an issue then they should have made sure they hired the absolute best to begin with so that's on them. Michael Jones is the only board member who actually knows/cares about rugby. He's surrounded by clueless morons.
 

NZbloke

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....in fairness you're the only person know that thinks that

and its not just the fast pass, its the vision to see his 10 is struggling and to try and control the game by getting the ball to the one guys in the backline making meters, half a dozen times we saw a short ball crash and then a wide ball to ioane to keep them guessing and it worked

when our forwards were pretending to be marshmallows in the first half smith was chopping front rowers all over the place (as much as a 5'9 80kg bloke can) where TJ is famous for putting his hands up and back peddling when someone big run at him
Having a fast pass looking for both backs or forwards to run onto the ball isn't really vision - vision is playing whats in front on you looking to use the best tactic in a situation, Smith needs to do more than pass & box kick, also vary his kicking game, make darting runs around the edges of rucks etc, keep the defence guessing.

Aaron Smith is never going to be able to handle the physical game like TJ can, he's a much bigger halfback at 6' & about 94kg.

Only have the time to go on one rugby forum, what do the blokes on the other rugby sites say about how poorly we deal with the rushing defence ? this has been an ongoing problem since Hansen, that was highlighted in the Lions series - in reality you've only got two ways to counter it, you either have good momentum going forward in phase play, giving your backs top front foot ball, so they have good options on attack... it's when you get slow ball from the forwards the tactics have to change, as the backs are going to have a lot less space & time to create, only other option in that situation is smart varied kicking behind them, as mentioned, just using the up & under to try & break down a flat defence is just a real lack of thinking.
 

NZbloke

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Michael Jones is the only board member who actually knows/cares about rugby. He's surrounded by clueless morons.
Yeah, spot on mate, vital we have the right people on the NZRU board.
 

Kiwiwomble

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Having a fast pass looking for both backs or forwards to run onto the ball isn't really vision - vision is playing whats in front on you looking to use the best tactic in a situation, Smith needs to do more than pass & box kick, also vary his kicking game, make darting runs around the edges of rucks etc, keep the defence guessing.

Aaron Smith is never going to be able to handle the physical game like TJ can, he's a much bigger halfback at 6' & about 94kg.

Only have the time to go on one rugby forum, what do the blokes on the other rugby sites say about how poorly we deal with the rushing defence ? this has been an ongoing problem since Hansen, that was highlighted in the Lions series - in reality you've only got two ways to counter it, you either have good momentum going forward in phase play, giving your backs top front foot ball, so they have good options on attack... it's when you get slow ball from the forwards the tactics have to change, as the backs are going to have a lot less space & time to create, only other option in that situation is smart varied kicking behind them, as mentioned, just using the up & under to try & break down a flat defence is just a real lack of thinking.
do you deliberately ignore certain things so you can try and make a point? i described smith as doing exactly what you describe vision as, he looked at what was in front of him and saw where we were making good ground which was pretty much only Reiko ,except for 15 minutes in the second half when the forwards woke up, and did what ever he could to get it too him. the short ball first is common sense to draw some defence, stretch them to give the second long ball a better chance to find a gap

re your second point, i think everyone agrees forwards getting front foot ball is the most straight forward way to counter a rush defense, where i think you'll disagree is there is little point doing that if TJ then stands over the ball for 5 sec and lets the defense set before looping a pass out

you need the forwards to do their thing AND to utilise that front foot ball with quick distribution
 

NZbloke

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do you deliberately ignore certain things so you can try and make a point? i described smith as doing exactly what you describe vision as, he looked at what was in front of him and saw where we were making good ground which was pretty much only Reiko ,except for 15 minutes in the second half when the forwards woke up, and did what ever he could to get it too him. the short ball first is common sense to draw some defence, stretch them to give the second long ball a better chance to find a gap

re your second point, i think everyone agrees forwards getting front foot ball is the most straight forward way to counter a rush defense, where i think you'll disagree is there is little point doing that if TJ then stands over the ball for 5 sec and lets the defense set before looping a pass out

you need the forwards to do their thing AND to utilise that front foot ball with quick distribution
You're just not getting what I mean, passing is only part of reading the game - naturally if we're making good ground Smith on most occasions is going to fire the ball out wide, or give a short pass to a player making an angled run to go through a gap etc, that's pretty much a given... what I'm saying whether we are receiving fast or slow ball Smiths option taking only tends to be passing or box kicking, also needs to dart around the edges too & vary his kicking game more, obviously the more options a player has on attack the better.

You're a bit harsh on TJ, our cleaning has been rubbish way too much this year, making it difficult to free the ball from the ruck, Smith had much the same problem in that last game because of it as well... had to laugh a bit the way Smith was thrown around like a rag doll at times :) in these real physical matches you need a bigger halfback like TJ to at least be on the bench.

Of course when your pack is going forward it's one way of countering the rushing defence - as I've said for umpteenth time though, when we get slow ball that's when the big squeeze is on our backs, so need to kick smartly to turn the opposition around with wipers kicks etc... Hansen & now Foster just didn't have the sense to do that, have talked to others & they can't believe it either.
 
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OllyM97

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I didn’t see the full game on Saturday but saw the extended highlights and France were fantastic. In the first half the All Blacks couldn’t get near them. The French forwards’ ball in hand skills are at a different level to any other Northern Hemisphere side. Then in the second half when the ABs came back as you knew they would, Ntamack produced the best bit of play I’ve seen in a rugby match for years. That counter-attack was special, to have the confidence to even attempt it shows how much the French players trust their skills. I’m just gutted that France didn’t get a try from that because that would have been better than that try at Eden Park in 1994. Purely as a rugby fan, it’s awesome that “French Flair” has made a comeback, it has been sorely missed. Allez Les Bleus!!.
 

DonBilly

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I didn’t see the full game on Saturday but saw the extended highlights and France were fantastic. In the first half the All Blacks couldn’t get near them. The French forwards’ ball in hand skills are at a different level to any other Northern Hemisphere side. Then in the second half when the ABs came back as you knew they would, Ntamack produced the best bit of play I’ve seen in a rugby match for years. That counter-attack was special, to have the confidence to even attempt it shows how much the French players trust their skills. I’m just gutted that France didn’t get a try from that because that would have been better than that try at Eden Park in 1994. Purely as a rugby fan, it’s awesome that “French Flair” has made a comeback, it has been sorely missed. Allez Les Bleus!!.

His father, Emile Ntamack, was involved in that 1994 try at Eden Park.
 

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