Future of Italy and Georgia on the world rugby scenario

[ArthurBrasilis02]

Good evening, not today, because Italy's performance and future in the Six Nations are being questioned. In My opinion, Italy must immediately leave the competition, as it does not offer competitiveness and its income has been stagnant for years .... Georgia, I have the same opinion, only that it is stagnant at the Top, but I am against them playing the Six Nations, because they are too raw for competition and could perform even worse than Italy. What could be done to resolve this situation would be the creation of a tournament with the molds of the Tri-Nations only with emerging teams: Japan, Italy and Georgia, it would be much better to evolve the game with these teams and in the future could place the Three Pacific nations: Samoa, Fiji and Tonga

what do you think of my idea?

 

[BPM]

If I'm understanding correctly, you're saying it should go back to a 5 Nations and a new competition for Japan, Italy, Georgia and the Pacific Island teams?

It's definitely not a bad idea, but I think the logistics of your new competition would be very tricky. Japan and the PI teams would be OK, but adding in two European teams would mean massive travel. That was always difficult with Argentina in the Rugby Championship and it would probably be even harder with the competition you're proposing.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

Good evening, not today, because Italy's performance and future in the Six Nations are being questioned. In My opinion, Italy must immediately leave the competition, as it does not offer competitiveness and its income has been stagnant for years .... Georgia, I have the same opinion, only that it is stagnant at the Top, but I am against them playing the Six Nations, because they are too raw for competition and could perform even worse than Italy. What could be done to resolve this situation would be the creation of a tournament with the molds of the Tri-Nations only with emerging teams: Japan, Italy and Georgia, it would be much better to evolve the game with these teams and in the future could place the Three Pacific nations: Samoa, Fiji and Tonga

what do you think of my idea?

did you propose this on the Internationals Rugby Facebook page, saw exactly the same thing the other day

keeping mind these tournaments are run/financed by the teams playing in them, and the PI's are broke, plus their tiny populations mean there probably isn't the market to attract a big TV deal on top of the travel...it would be a hard road to make work

ive always said the easiest way i can see for these emerging tier 2/3 teams to get more meaningful games to make everyone have to qualify for the RWC, so georgia would get games against all the 6 nations but spread over the three years before a RWC, the NZ and AUS would be forced to play the PI's ver the same period, spreading it out over the RWC cycle means the losses these games could incur wouldnt have as big an effect. the Tier 2/3 teams also really plan for the RWC, one goal rather than being tempted by small gains each year in a comp that cost them money rather than making it

 

[ArthurBrasilis02]

Yes, that's my idea, I understand that the logistics, maybe we could try to find solutions, maybe it could be related seasonally on the test match dates, and put it to play in a host country, maybe in Europe, Japan or New Zealand and Australia ( where pacifico teams usually play) ... but I think at first to create a Tri Nations with: Italy, Georgia and Japan, it could be done in Italy, the logistics would be less complicated, what do you think of this idea?

 

[Reiser99]

Tbh I think changing international competitions is irrelevant. For me the biggest issue holding Italy back is the lack of a decent domestic setup. Italy have been in the competition for years and the gap between them and the other 5 nations has grown. I think in the early 2000s when the professional game was still growing Italy could compete as you still had players coming through who would have been influenced by the amateur era. Now 20+ years later the home nations and France have got their act together and have clear pathways for development. Scotland do struggle a bit still with just two teams, but they still have a better structure at amateur level than Italy. In Italy the game is simply not popular enough to get the investment it needs and grow to increase the basic standard and the player pool. Japan as an example have heavily invested in their domestic game creating their own league and bringing in foreign players to ignite the game. They even held the world cup to try and grow the game. Italy have only bidded for the world cup in 2015, 2019 and 2023. Japan even bid before them in 2011. Until Italy, Georgia and other nations etc...have regular competitive rugby at domestic level they won't compete as they will always being trying to make the best of what is available, rather than developing a complete rounded squad that can compete in all areas.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

Tbh I think changing international competitions is irrelevant. For me the biggest issue holding Italy back is the lack of a decent domestic setup. Italy have been in the competition for years and the gap between them and the other 5 nations has grown. I think in the early 2000s when the professional game was still growing Italy could compete as you still had players coming through who would have been influenced by the amateur era. Now 20+ years later the home nations and France have got their act together and have clear pathways for development. Scotland do struggle a bit still with just two teams, but they still have a better structure at amateur level than Italy. In Italy the game is simply not popular enough to get the investment it needs and grow to increase the basic standard and the player pool. Japan as an example have heavily invested in their domestic game creating their own league and bringing in foreign players to ignite the game. They even held the world cup to try and grow the game. Italy have only bidded for the world cup in 2015, 2019 and 2023. Japan even bid before them in 2011. Until Italy, Georgia and other nations etc...have regular competitive rugby at domestic level they won't compete as they will always being trying to make the best of what is available, rather than developing a complete rounded squad that can compete in all areas.

thats a good point, NZR has concentrated on the International game too much over the last 15 years and its really starting to show some damage on our domestic comps, NPC semi professional and super rugby siloed off more and more each year

our top players are playing almost as many international games as club games...thats not right

 

[ArthurBrasilis02]

did you propose this on the Internationals Rugby Facebook page, saw exactly the same thing the other day

keeping mind these tournaments are run/financed by the teams playing in them, and the PI's are broke, plus their tiny populations mean there probably isn't the market to attract a big TV deal on top of the travel...it would be a hard road to make work

ive always said the easiest way i can see for these emerging tier 2/3 teams to get more meaningful games to make everyone have to qualify for the RWC, so georgia would get games against all the 6 nations but spread over the three years before a RWC, the NZ and AUS would be forced to play the PI's ver the same period, spreading it out over the RWC cycle means the losses these games could incur wouldnt have as big an effect. the Tier 2/3 teams also really plan for the RWC, one goal rather than being tempted by small gains each year in a comp that cost them money rather than making it

I am not in this group, which in my opinion what could be done to help in the logistics was to compete over the Test Match dates, or in the Six Nations dates in a host country, it could be in Italy or Japan, but at first it would be a Tri Nations with Italy, Japan and Georgia

 

[ArthurBrasilis02]

Tbh I think changing international competitions is irrelevant. For me the biggest issue holding Italy back is the lack of a decent domestic setup. Italy have been in the competition for years and the gap between them and the other 5 nations has grown. I think in the early 2000s when the professional game was still growing Italy could compete as you still had players coming through who would have been influenced by the amateur era. Now 20+ years later the home nations and France have got their act together and have clear pathways for development. Scotland do struggle a bit still with just two teams, but they still have a better structure at amateur level than Italy. In Italy the game is simply not popular enough to get the investment it needs and grow to increase the basic standard and the player pool. Japan as an example have heavily invested in their domestic game creating their own league and bringing in foreign players to ignite the game. They even held the world cup to try and grow the game. Italy have only bidded for the world cup in 2015, 2019 and 2023. Japan even bid before them in 2011. Until Italy, Georgia and other nations etc...have regular competitive rugby at domestic level they won't compete as they will always being trying to make the best of what is available, rather than developing a complete rounded squad that can compete in all areas.

That is a good idea, I had not thought about domestic Rugby .... in Italy the big football clubs, there is rugby like Lazio, they could use these clubs as marketing to attract new players ... at least to reach the same level as Volleyball that has a very strong domestic league, what I see in Italy and that they don't think like that, they don't think about the initiation of the sport, but about short-term results in self-performance, that's why they naturalize many players. Georgia has a good level of domestic rugby (I follow umaglesi league) the problem is that they don't have many good Backs and they have the fact that they are a country in Eastern Europe ... if it was from Central Europe or Southern Europe, they would have been at Six Nations for some time