'Go build a stadium': England rugby boss snubs All Blacks plea over Twickenham

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Ritchie being blunt as ever to the AB's.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/...by-boss-snubs-All-Blacks-plea-over-Twickenham

TBH i can see his point though.
England - 82,000
French new stadium once completed - 82,000
Millennium Stadium - 74,000
Aviva Stadium - 51,700
Eden Park - 50,000

I mean if ever a SH country could or should have one huge national stadium it is NZ, there is an argument for the population being spread out but honestly NZ should be able to sellout a 80,000 stadium at nearly every game, granted the only place that could support such a thing would have to be Auckland I guess.

or maybe increase the Christchurch one and have say a 50,000 in North island and 40,000 in South Island or something instead of something like 20,000

Honestly if NZ really wanted to milk the lions for example it should play all 3 tests in the biggest stadium esp since the lions are travelling against each super rugby team.

 

[TheOvalBall]

When will the NZ arrogance stop ? Sheesh.

 

[Gavin]

Were they really asking for money from Twickenham when New Zealand ain't playing there?

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Interesting that we made no money on the Aus tour.

 

[ncurd]

Interesting that we made no money on the Aus tour.

Yeah I know Lions were basically charity to whoever we were touring but yeah I assume they make nothing out of the AI's in return.

Still can perfectally see why Richie is telling them to smeg off over giving them money over outside the test window games. Fair enough they can go seek money from elsewhere but I don't see why we'd feel compelled to give them money when they don't typically give us any.

 

[Peat]

Lions made 4m in 2009 for the home nations. Bit chickenfeed but not nothing and I imagine the sum will keep going up.

That's pretty much all sponsorship though.

Anyway, are we still getting all hot and excited about this? We make more money without them, they make more money without us, various executives jump up and down trying to pretend its nothing to do with them that the game everyone wants to see doesn't happen because of money. None of this is news.

 

[ncurd]

Lions made 4m in 2009 for the home nations. Bit chickenfeed but not nothing and I imagine the sum will keep going up.

That's pretty much all sponsorship though.

Anyway, are we still getting all hot and excited about this? We make more money without them, they make more money without us, various executives jump up and down trying to pretend its nothing to do with them that the game everyone wants to see doesn't happen because of money. None of this is news.

b..b...b....but tribalism!

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

The arrogance of some of the posts on that story is laughable. Seriously NZ really need to be taken down a peg or 2, some seem to believe they are god's gift to rugby and playing them is some sort of ultimate privilege. Quite frankly I'm glad NH bosses are calling the ABs bluff, dominance on the rugby pitch does not translate to dominance off it and the entire attitude of NZ coming into this is one of condescending arrogance and ultimatums, give us what we want and in return we will offer you mere mortals the privilege of our presence. ******** to that, you want to increase revenues? Put the money into it like we did.

 

[nickdnz]

Yay, the other 9 threads full of English diatribes on the exact same topic - didn't satisfy me. I was hoping for a little bit more group-think mob outrage.

 

[shaunwilding89]

The arrogance of some of the posts on that story is laughable. Seriously NZ really need to be taken down a peg or 2, some seem to believe they are god's gift to rugby and playing them is some sort of ultimate privilege. Quite frankly I'm glad NH bosses are calling the ABs bluff, dominance on the rugby pitch does not translate to dominance off it and the entire attitude of NZ coming into this is one of condescending arrogance and ultimatums, give us what we want and in return we will offer you mere mortals the privilege of our presence. ******** to that, you want to increase revenues? Put the money into it like we did.

Amen perfectly put

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Yay, the other 9 threads full of English diatribes on the exact same topic - didn't satisfy me. I was hoping for a little bit more group-think mob outrage.

Maybe if the ABs didn't make it so easy by being so arrogant about how they try to "negotiate" with other teams there wouldn't be such a reaction? The Welsh aren't overly happy with comments NZ made to them either.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Yay, the other 9 threads full of English diatribes on the exact same topic - didn't satisfy me. I was hoping for a little bit more group-think mob outrage.

I tried, i mean it is an interesting idea IMO.

 

[Peat]

Maybe if the ABs didn't make it so easy by being so arrogant about how they try to "negotiate" with other teams there wouldn't be such a reaction? The Welsh aren't overly happy with comments NZ made to them either.

Slightly confused about what's so arrogant for asking for the amount of money they're presumably making elsewhere.

 

[nickdnz]

Maybe if the ABs didn't make it so easy by being so arrogant about how they try to "negotiate" with other teams there wouldn't be such a reaction? The Welsh aren't overly happy with comments NZ made to them either.

Well then don't play the All Blacks. Like I've said you're not entitled to games outside the windows and if you don't want to pay for it then shove off. The English attitudes in general is "well we maybe the ones who have most benefitted from the status quo - in a system which historically we have setup to our benefit - but anyone who wants change is either salking or can go get stuffed because we have resources" - and then have the gall to label others as arrogant. It's hilarious. You only have to see the RFUs comnents on an international season to show just how inward looking they are. International game be damned. The RFU seem unwilling to negotiate on anything that could benefit an international game - and so I don't care about strong arm tactics. The home nations have been the bullies of the rugby world and do nothing to grow the game that doesn't directly benefit them.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Slightly confused about what's so arrogant for asking for the amount of money they're presumably making elsewhere.

More this is all tied in with threats to not tour the NH for extra games if there isn't a global season, refusing to play in nations where they demand asymmetric deals for takings when they are visitors compared to when they are hosts. If they can get better deals somewhere else then fine, let them go. Also they aren't really asking, they are demanding, making threats if you don't get a deal massively in your favour is hardly asking. English and NH rugby is wealthier because it has had more funding put into it and has a larger following. Imagine if we said NZ have to hand over some of their players because of the disparity in skill between the sides or we won't play each other. Why is it therefore fair for NZ to demand we hand over a larger share of the earnings when we are the ones who invested in it and all they are doing is turning up to play?

The home nations have been the bullies of the rugby world and do nothing to grow the game that doesn't directly benefit them.

Suitably vague to allow any decision to be portrayed as selfishness. OF course the RFU and home nations aren't going to take actions that harm themselves. What, are we supposed to fund everyone elses rugby now? You call us the bullies yet it's not the RFU going round demanding everyone do as we say or England won't play them, we aren't the ones making ultimatums.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Well then don't play the All Blacks. Like I've said you're not entitled to games outside the windows and if you don't want to pay for it then shove off. The English attitudes in general is "well we maybe the ones who have most benefitted from the status quo - in a system which historically we have setup to our benefit - but anyone who wants change is either salking or can go get stuffed because we have resources" - and then have the gall to label others as arrogant. It's hilarious. You only have to see the RFUs comnents on an international season to show just how inward looking they are. International game be damned. The RFU seem unwilling to negotiate on anything that could benefit an international game - and so I don't care about strong arm tactics. The home nations have been the bullies of the rugby world and do nothing to grow the game that doesn't directly benefit them.

Could be wrong but didn't the SH push for the pro sport.

 

[nickdnz]

More this is all tied in with threats to not tour the NH for extra games if there isn't a global season, refusing to play in nations where they demand asymmetric deals for takings when they are visitors compared to when they are hosts. If they can get better deals somewhere else then fine, let them go. Also they aren't really asking, they are demanding, making threats if you don't get a deal massively in your favour is hardly asking. English and NH rugby is wealthier because it has had more funding put into it and has a larger following. Imagine if we said NZ have to hand over some of their players because of the disparity in skill between the sides or we won't play each other. Why is it therefore fair for NZ to demand we hand over a larger share of the earnings when we are the ones who invested in it and all they are doing is turning up to play?

The difference between demanding something, and stipulating your requirements for a deal to be completed seems an emotive argument. We don't exactly need to beg the RFU for anything. And we don't need to play there outside of fixtures. You. Are. Not. Entitled. To. All. Black. Games.

Again an idiotic statement. Firstly, the home unions DO take plenty of NZ players from NZ due to their skill. The premiership is littered with NZRU developed players. They even refuse to vote to a change in eligibility laws so they can wreap benefits from other unions players. Once again it's a one way system.

Well the investment in the All Blacks has largely been placed on the strength of the brand. Their success and marketability is their investment - and so they want returns. Their brand value is their investment and the RFU will just have to pay what the market says its worth for when playing outside the window, or not play them.

 

[nickdnz]

Suitably vague to allow any decision to be portrayed as selfishness. OF course the RFU and home nations aren't going to take actions that harm themselves. What, are we supposed to fund everyone elses rugby now? You call us the bullies yet it's not the RFU going round demanding everyone do as we say or England won't play them, we aren't the ones making ultimatums.

England don't need to make ultimatums. Everything has already gone their way. That's the point.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

We are not entitled to All Black games and you aren't entitled to 50% of the gate revenues, simple. The thing is, we aren't demanding the ABs come to England and play us whilst the ABs are demanding numerous NH unions give them 50% of the gate receipts for simply turning up to play. So England turns you down, what next? The ABs are also making the same demands of Wales and will just keep demanding until they get someone who concedes. You think this is a productive way to do business? Make demands until you find a situation where the power imbalance is enough that they will roll over?

Yes there are NZ players in NH clubs, what you conveniently ignored was DEMAND NZ players for out international sides to make up for the skill difference. Those NZ players come of their own accord to play for clubs who then pay them for playing for them. No demanding, a simple case of using a carrot as incentive, NZ are currently employing the stick. We aren't sending the Lions to NZ and demanding 50% of the NZ team play for the Lions are we?

Oh so now not making ultimatums is proof you are a bully, what sort of messed up logic is that!? The international season clashes with the end of the domestic season, the Lions tours have been set up to be completely relentless, generating more revenue for NZ whilst damaging the NH team. Where exactly is this great dominance? The international season favours the SH, the Lions tour favours the SH, funding agreements are disproportionately in favour of the SH and now NZ are makign demands for an international season that works better for the SH than the NH and demanding 50% of the revenues for just turning up! Where exactly are we getting the best deal? The fact that we get to keep the majority of the money we generate as a result of us investing in our stadiums and our countrymen going to watch the games and fill out these stadiums?

 

[Immenso]

"We didn't get anything out of going to Australia in June. And ditto from the Lions. I can't see the case for arguing the other way"

The Lions do get revenue sharing. He is wrong.

Ironic that the only nations to revenue share on internationals inside the WR window are the 4 home nations.

Nothing wrong with Lions receiving a fee from the hosts, as they don't host themselves. the actual hosts are happy sharing a small amount of a bigger than normal pie. but Ritchie appears to be a bit of an ignorant.