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GOAT - The eternal debate
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<blockquote data-quote="Bruce_ma gooshvili" data-source="post: 1087673" data-attributes="member: 74121"><p>I know snooker was barred by the OP, but there is an argument for Ronnie with the eye test of how he compared others in the sport (past, present and future) when in top form - he doesn't look human to anyone who has picked up a snooker cue when be is in full flight. Being ambidextrous helps. China has had squillions of snooker players for years now and nobody has come close to Ronnie for natural talent in my opinion. But yes, snooker remains a very geographically limited and a niche sport, and he is all natural talent rather than a true competitor so I'd rule him out too (I'm also one who'd err on the side of football and running in terms of accessibility of the sport and lack of barrier to reach the top being a factor).</p><p></p><p>In terms of GOAT generally I'm really struggling. From the eye test I'd go with a toss up between Bolt and Michael Johnson. Bolt beat a load of dopers (which is both incredibly impressive and suspicious given some of those dopers had the same national team) in an incredibly accessible, international and meritocratic (at age levels) sport, so I think I'd go with him using the old dangerous assumption of innocence. But he's a physical freak with the combination of size and exclusivity, so I hate to reward that.</p><p></p><p>I'd rule out dominant distance runners as it is so skewed to those raised at altitude.</p><p></p><p>I've never been particularly impressed by Messi at World Cups and Spanish clubs historically don't have a reputation for being impressive defensively (unlike say Serie A in its pomp) so it is a place attacking players can shine. For football I'd thrown in Lilian Thuram from left field. Played for years alongside near gods Cannivaro and Buffon at Parma and always looked slightly better than both of them (which is about the greatest compliment I could give as an Italian fan). You'll never see a defensive trio like that again. Thuram won a World Cup and when he messed up positionally in a WC semi his response was to run up the field and score two goals from open play, which isn't bad for a central defender who'd only ever scored once in over 200 hundred games in Serie A (although he was playing right back on the day I believe). A French record 142 caps, pace, strength, impenetrable to opposing power, speed or guile and touched by the gods in a WC semifinal, he is the footballer who epitomised 'man against boys' to me. Bonus points for going with the name Lilian when his real first name was Rudy. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite7" alt=":p" title="Stick Out Tongue :p" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":p" /></p><p></p><p>[MEDIA=youtube]4G32IEc2EQg[/MEDIA]</p><p></p><p>Bradman is from a bygone era in a niche sport. Wilt Chamberlain the same. Motorsport, swimming, cycling, tennis and rugby too niche. Boxing difficult to judge due to different weight categories.</p><p></p><p>Bound to be someone in massive accessible Asian sports like table tennis, badminton or kabadi that deserves a shout but I'll be damned if I know who they are.</p><p></p><p>So yeah Bolt is my incredibly uninspired selection from my head and Thuram from my heart.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Bruce_ma gooshvili, post: 1087673, member: 74121"] I know snooker was barred by the OP, but there is an argument for Ronnie with the eye test of how he compared others in the sport (past, present and future) when in top form - he doesn't look human to anyone who has picked up a snooker cue when be is in full flight. Being ambidextrous helps. China has had squillions of snooker players for years now and nobody has come close to Ronnie for natural talent in my opinion. But yes, snooker remains a very geographically limited and a niche sport, and he is all natural talent rather than a true competitor so I'd rule him out too (I'm also one who'd err on the side of football and running in terms of accessibility of the sport and lack of barrier to reach the top being a factor). In terms of GOAT generally I'm really struggling. From the eye test I'd go with a toss up between Bolt and Michael Johnson. Bolt beat a load of dopers (which is both incredibly impressive and suspicious given some of those dopers had the same national team) in an incredibly accessible, international and meritocratic (at age levels) sport, so I think I'd go with him using the old dangerous assumption of innocence. But he's a physical freak with the combination of size and exclusivity, so I hate to reward that. I'd rule out dominant distance runners as it is so skewed to those raised at altitude. I've never been particularly impressed by Messi at World Cups and Spanish clubs historically don't have a reputation for being impressive defensively (unlike say Serie A in its pomp) so it is a place attacking players can shine. For football I'd thrown in Lilian Thuram from left field. Played for years alongside near gods Cannivaro and Buffon at Parma and always looked slightly better than both of them (which is about the greatest compliment I could give as an Italian fan). You'll never see a defensive trio like that again. Thuram won a World Cup and when he messed up positionally in a WC semi his response was to run up the field and score two goals from open play, which isn't bad for a central defender who'd only ever scored once in over 200 hundred games in Serie A (although he was playing right back on the day I believe). A French record 142 caps, pace, strength, impenetrable to opposing power, speed or guile and touched by the gods in a WC semifinal, he is the footballer who epitomised 'man against boys' to me. Bonus points for going with the name Lilian when his real first name was Rudy. :p [MEDIA=youtube]4G32IEc2EQg[/MEDIA] Bradman is from a bygone era in a niche sport. Wilt Chamberlain the same. Motorsport, swimming, cycling, tennis and rugby too niche. Boxing difficult to judge due to different weight categories. Bound to be someone in massive accessible Asian sports like table tennis, badminton or kabadi that deserves a shout but I'll be damned if I know who they are. So yeah Bolt is my incredibly uninspired selection from my head and Thuram from my heart. [/QUOTE]
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