Green v Gold

[mdaclarke]

Big winners: Kade Wolhuter (for the little time he was on) , JJ Van der Mesch, Yaw Penxe, Jarno Augustus, Carlu Sadie
Big Looser: Damien Willemse (kicking was off, don't think he has the big match temperament)

 

[Umaga's Witness]

a lot of youngsters or otherwise new players in these teams. I haven't kept track of where everybody is so I assume there are many overseas or injured. Does anyone know if the overseas players will be available for the rugby championship should it go ahead?
For example, will we see any of
Rg
Trevor
Lood
Eben
De Allende (we aren't on first name basis)
W Le roux
faf
Malcolm
Cheslin
Handre?

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

I've read articles that imply that our overseas Bokke are available but I've also read reports stating that they can't really be considered for practical (logistical/training) reasons though they will have had the most game time so really if we don't use them we are sending in undercooked players and we can't do that because of player safety considerations so all in all I think we aren't going to be playing in the Rugby Championship. But, as far as I know there hasn't been anything official and Nienaber has said that we need the money.

This is our situation the way I see it and as far as I know their status (anyone who knows better please chip in):
Retired / Injured / Available / overseas / *unsure of status / Scottish soon (or French)

P
S Kitshoff
T Mtawarira
T du Toit
F Malherbe
T Nyakane*
V Koch
W Louw
P Schoeman
O Nche

HK
M Marx*
B Mbonambi
S Ntubeni
S Brits
A Van der Merwe
J Dweba

LK
RG Snyman
E Etzebeth
L de Jager
F Mostert*
JL du Preez
D du Preez
JD Schickerling
P Willemse
J Jenkins
H Andrews
JJ Van der Mescht
M Orie

LF
PS du Toit
S Kolisi
D Vermeulen
F Louw
M Coetzee
J Vermeulen
M Van Staden
J Augustus
S Notshe
J Venter
A Botha
J Kriel
J Pokomela
K Smith*

SH
F de Klerk
C Reinach
H Jantjies

FH
H Pollard
E Jantjies
D Willemse
C Bosch
M Steyn
R du Preez

CE
D de Allende
L Am
F Steyn
J Serfontein*
R Janse van Rensburg
J Kriel*
A Esterhuizen*
F Venter*
C Hendricks
W Simelane
R Pretorius

W
C Kolbe
S Nkosi
M Mapimpi
A Dyantyi* (pending doping hearing)
D Van der Merwe

FB
W Le Roux*
W Gelant
A Fassi

 

[unrated]

D Van der Merwe

Nice

 

[Umaga's Witness]

I've read articles that imply that our overseas Bokke are available but I've also read reports stating that they can't really be considered for practical (logistical/training) reasons though they will have had the most game time so really if we don't use them we are sending in undercooked players and we can't do that because of player safety considerations so all in all I think we aren't going to be playing in the Rugby Championship. But, as far as I know there hasn't been anything official and Nienaber has said that we need the money.

This is our situation the way I see it and as far as I know their status (anyone who knows better please chip in):
Retired / Injured / Available / overseas / *unsure of status / Scottish soon (or French)

P
S Kitshoff
T Mtawarira
T du Toit
F Malherbe
T Nyakane*
V Koch
W Louw
P Schoeman
O Nche

HK
M Marx*
B Mbonambi
S Ntubeni
S Brits
A Van der Merwe
J Dweba

LK
RG Snyman
E Etzebeth
L de Jager
F Mostert*
JL du Preez
D du Preez
JD Schickerling
P Willemse
J Jenkins
H Andrews
JJ Van der Mescht
M Orie

LF
PS du Toit
S Kolisi
D Vermeulen
F Louw
M Coetzee
J Vermeulen
M Van Staden
J Augustus
S Notshe
J Venter
A Botha
J Kriel
J Pokomela
K Smith*

SH
F de Klerk
C Reinach
H Jantjies

FH
H Pollard
E Jantjies
D Willemse
C Bosch
M Steyn
R du Preez

CE
D de Allende
L Am
F Steyn
J Serfontein*
R Janse van Rensburg
J Kriel*
A Esterhuizen*
F Venter*
C Hendricks
W Simelane
R Pretorius

W
C Kolbe
S Nkosi
M Mapimpi
A Dyantyi* (pending doping hearing)
D Van der Merwe

FB
W Le Roux*
W Gelant
A Fassi

Thanks for this. Regarding all those injuries, do you know how long term they are? 3 of the best 5 or so locks in the World last year IMO (Lood number one, rg best reserve, eben up there) being injured is pretty massive, though South Africa is a lock factory so the backups are no doubt up to it too. was keen to see Fassi get a chance too (against the other teams, not the all blacks), even if he's a bit raw.

I hope you do come, even though it won't be a fair competition, will be good for Australia to get a few wins. There'll be injuries and it will be tough fitnesswise if it gets hot and humid like it can at that time of year. Rassie and co will need to keep up the narrative that you're not prepared, so the home fan base aren't too critical.

Availability of overseas players will be enormously important

 

[mdaclarke]

I've read articles that imply that our overseas Bokke are available but I've also read reports stating that they can't really be considered for practical (logistical/training) reasons though they will have had the most game time so really if we don't use them we are sending in undercooked players and we can't do that because of player safety considerations so all in all I think we aren't going to be playing in the Rugby Championship. But, as far as I know there hasn't been anything official and Nienaber has said that we need the money.

This is our situation the way I see it and as far as I know their status (anyone who knows better please chip in):
Retired / Injured / Available / overseas / *unsure of status / Scottish soon (or French)

P
S Kitshoff
T Mtawarira
T du Toit
F Malherbe
T Nyakane*
V Koch
W Louw
P Schoeman
O Nche

HK
M Marx*
B Mbonambi
S Ntubeni
S Brits
A Van der Merwe
J Dweba

LK
RG Snyman
E Etzebeth
L de Jager
F Mostert*
JL du Preez
D du Preez
JD Schickerling
P Willemse
J Jenkins
H Andrews
JJ Van der Mescht
M Orie

LF
PS du Toit
S Kolisi
D Vermeulen
F Louw
M Coetzee
J Vermeulen
M Van Staden
J Augustus
S Notshe
J Venter
A Botha
J Kriel
J Pokomela
K Smith*

SH
F de Klerk
C Reinach
H Jantjies

FH
H Pollard
E Jantjies
D Willemse
C Bosch
M Steyn
R du Preez

CE
D de Allende
L Am
F Steyn
J Serfontein*
R Janse van Rensburg
J Kriel*
A Esterhuizen*
F Venter*
C Hendricks
W Simelane
R Pretorius

W
C Kolbe
S Nkosi
M Mapimpi
A Dyantyi* (pending doping hearing)
D Van der Merwe

FB
W Le Roux*
W Gelant
A Fassi

Given their recent performances would you add Kade Wolhuter and Jan Hendrick Wessels to this list, or is it too early for them?

I think the overseas players are eligible, however as you state it is a question of practicality with quarantine etc. I imagine given the team culture and the pride in the jersey that the players will move heaven and earth to play.

 

[unrated]

It's too early especially for Wolhuter. He has not even played Currie Cup yet. We are just judging on a few minutes in an exhibition match and the promise he showed at his overly dominant SA school.

 

[TRF_heineken]

I wouldn't read too much into that match to be honest. It was just a good bonding match to get the guys together for the first time since winning the world cup, while also bringing in some youngsters into the mix to experience the Springbok culture.

The standout's for me in the game was:
L De Bruin (he was the tighthead prop that gave Kitshoff a hard time in the scrums in the first half)
Sanele Nohamba
Yaw Penxe
Duane Vermeulen (I think Roscoe Specman is going to have a few sore spots today)
Lukhanyo Am
Bongi Mbonambi
JD Shickerling

I think that it's a pity that players like Jenkins and Van Der Mescht didn't get more game time, as Hyron Andrews, Salmaan Moerat, and Marvin Orie didn't really show much promise, and it's clear that they didn't help their props in the scrums.

With Snyman, De Jager and Etzebeth all out for at least until February/March 2021 with injuries, the lock position is an area we have to focus on.

This match wasn't fun to watch, and so many errors. And Jaco Peyper was just the wrong ref to pick for this game. 20 Penalties in the game, come on, some of those offside calls could've have let slip, just to keep the play flowing.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Thanks for this. Regarding all those injuries, do you know how long term they are? 3 of the best 5 or so locks in the World last year IMO (Lood number one, rg best reserve, eben up there) being injured is pretty massive, though South Africa is a lock factory so the backups are no doubt up to it too. was keen to see Fassi get a chance too (against the other teams, not the all blacks), even if he's a bit raw.

I hope you do come, even though it won't be a fair competition, will be good for Australia to get a few wins. There'll be injuries and it will be tough fitnesswise if it gets hot and humid like it can at that time of year. Rassie and co will need to keep up the narrative that you're not prepared, so the home fan base aren't too critical.

Availability of overseas players will be enormously important

I also hope we play and the overseas based players will be the key to some semblance of competitiveness from our side. It being such a long "tour" and you can't call in reinforcements means we will have to take along a lot of undercooked players as well though. No use trying to say who it will be touring as it will probably be everyone. Our main injuries are at lock, in the back three and then Pollard because beyond Pollard it drops off steeply. Nienaber has already said we will be choosing Jantjies as 1st choice and indeed Bosch and Willemse (especially Willemse) looked way off the pace. If anything we should be taking Jantjies and Morne Steyn who's game management schooled a young Bosch in our 1st games back. I don't think we will leapfrog Bosch/Willemse for Kade Wolhuter. We've played promising players too fresh in the past (Goosen). I'd rather see Rob du Preez called in from Sale. Him or Jaco van der Walt. At least they'd have had game time.

At lock we have cover enough but I don't think we will rush in the actually more promising youngsters and will probably pick from those 24-25 year olds that stuck round SA and weren't picked up by an overseas club (unfortunately so IMO). Back three will be interesting. I'd have liked a combo of Kolbe, Fassi and Nkosi. My hope is we can get Duhan van der Merwe off of his Scottish track. But I doubt politics would allow him as a long term filler for the aging Mapimpi. Maybe with Fassi at the back instead of Le Roux we can afford a white wing again. Dyantyi might be back in the fold. I don't know. We'll have to wait and see.

What I would like to see vs (what I expect to see):
1 Kitshoff
2 Mbonambi
3 Nyakane
4 Roets (Jenkins/Moerat/Andrews)
5 Van der Mescht (Schickerling) Not sure if Mostert is available- maybe a bit of experience would be good. I also know my preference of Roets and Van der Mescht is probably a tad left field and pre-emptive/prospective or rather overly hasty/optimistic. 4Jenkins, 5Mostert/Schickerling won't let us down.
6 Van Staaden
7 Kolisi
8 Vermeuelen
9 De Klerk (Jantjies)
10 Du Preez (Jantjies)
11 Van der Merwe (Gelant)
12 Janse van Rensburg (Steyn/De Allende)
13 Am
14 Hendricks (Kolbe)
15 Kolbe (Willemse)

This is wild speculation of course. There are a ton of players where I just don't know what their status is and it is also a guess how much our staff are planning to rely on overseas based players or no.

Given their recent performances would you add Kade Wolhuter and Jan Hendrick Wessels to this list, or is it too early for them?

I think the overseas players are eligible, however as you state it is a question of practicality with quarantine etc. I imagine given the team culture and the pride in the jersey that the players will move heaven and earth to play.

If there was a time we are currently at a loss if we don't select overseas based players but we don't have a track record of picking players for a Bok team if they havn't had at least 1 year of SR or even CC under the belt. I doubt we'll see them even if we travel with a squad of 60.

 

[TRF_heineken]

I think it's becoming more and more an issue that we are not going to participate in the RC. Government must still give the green light for international sports travel, especially for team-based sports.

And the likelihood of that happening is only middle October, depending on whether the COVID infections rise of fall. What is also interesting is that currently we are using a 10-day Quarantine period for people from abroad coming in to the country. So I don't know why the quarantined period has to be 2 whole weeks should we go to NZ.

But with that said, if we participate, our guys will need at least about 5 more matches locally before they will be in any shape with regards to match-fitness. Then they'll need a bit more time in the Springbok camp to work together. So if we are going to participate, I can't see it happening before end of November...

 

[mdaclarke]

I think it's becoming more and more an issue that we are not going to participate in the RC. Government must still give the green light for international sports travel, especially for team-based sports.

And the likelihood of that happening is only middle October, depending on whether the COVID infections rise of fall. What is also interesting is that currently we are using a 10-day Quarantine period for people from abroad coming in to the country. So I don't know why the quarantined period has to be 2 whole weeks should we go to NZ.

But with that said, if we participate, our guys will need at least about 5 more matches locally before they will be in any shape with regards to match-fitness. Then they'll need a bit more time in the Springbok camp to work together. So if we are going to participate, I can't see it happening before end of November...

How will they impact the SARU financially?

 

[TRF_heineken]

How will they impact the SARU financially?

If we don't compete in the RC?

It's difficult to say. On one hand they are not incurring costs for travelling to NZ, and staying in hotels during they're time in NZ. On the other hand, they are losing money due to no matches being broadcasted. So it's a question of weighing up the costs against the income.

Supersport however, will be broadcasting the Bledisloe Cup matches, and according to the agreement with SARU, SARU will be getting a piece of the pie in the broadcasting deal.

But with that said, our local tournament is also kicking off this weekend, and that will be a nice incentive for SARU.

 

[Umaga's Witness]

If we don't compete in the RC?

It's difficult to say. On one hand they are not incurring costs for travelling to NZ, and staying in hotels during they're time in NZ. On the other hand, they are losing money due to no matches being broadcasted. So it's a question of weighing up the costs against the income.

Supersport however, will be broadcasting the Bledisloe Cup matches, and according to the agreement with SARU, SARU will be getting a piece of the pie in the broadcasting deal.

But with that said, our local tournament is also kicking off this weekend, and that will be a nice incentive for SARU.

So seems like you didn't hear the last minute change in venue for the rugby championship - it's In Australia Now, hot humid Australia

 

[sigesige00]

Why "Gold" not White? The jersey colour was clearly white.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Why "Gold" not White? The jersey colour was clearly white.

It's not about the colour of the jersey. It's about the national springbok colours, which is Green and Gold. And we use the term, "the player is putting on his green and gold for the country".

Plus, the gold colour was on both jerseys.

 

[TheOvalBall]

Terrible game even if it was once off. Flyhalf for Boks is a big problem. Elton is not the answer. He never made the step up. Maybe Curwin should be given a chance.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Terrible game even if it was once off. Flyhalf for Boks is a big problem. Elton is not the answer. He never made the step up. Maybe Curwin should be given a chance.

I think this domestic season will show us a few candidates who can put their hands up for that spot. I think guys like Kade Wolhuter, Clinton Swart, and a few more unknown/young guys will show us if they can be the next incumbent. I especially look forward to how Morne Steyn will be helping the young guns at the Bulls improve their game...

 

[TheOvalBall]

I think this domestic season will show us a few candidates who can put their hands up for that spot. I think guys like Kade Wolhuter, Clinton Swart, and a few more unknown/young guys will show us if they can be the next incumbent. I especially look forward to how Morne Steyn will be helping the young guns at the Bulls improve their game...

Morne Steyn could also help out at flyhalf, but he is old. lol

 

[TRF_heineken]

Morne Steyn could also help out at flyhalf, but he is old. lol

He has retired from international rugby. But I guess if Schalk Brits can return to international duty, after retiring 3 times, then I guess Steyn can too. But there's a lot of talented flyhalves in SA. Albeit very young, but they have to show what they're capable of, just like Pollard did at the ripe age of 21.