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Hansen worried about future of rugby

Rather instead of a rugby ball lets have oval frizbies. No seriously, I am starting t get the idea that Hansen is sigesige.

I feel people are romantasizing the old days by remenbering the good games and forgetting there was just as many dross games as there are today. Yes, some teams are going for a hevy handed approach it's true even if it might not be their 'traditional' style of game (I'm talking Wales and France here specifically) but I'd argue it's their coaches' fault and not the game itself and I'd go further than that and say it's costing them as they are being left behind by those with a more varied game plan. That test level.

At the club level I can only really speak for SA and the reverse is true over here in that it has been the more expressive teams that have been getting teh rewards. Last year's Currie Cup final was fought by the two teams with the most eagerness to give the ball some air. I don't think we can really talk about Super rugby this year yet as it's only been 3 weeks but lets look at the last few year's champions; 2014 the Waratahs, 2013 and 2012 the Chiefs and 2011 the Reds. Now I am not going to do it because I know what it'll look like and can't care to load the stats but tell me those teams weren't the most dynamic in those years..

Rugby is fit as a fiddle on the whole. If it isn't for your team then the fault just might lie with your team (I'm a Stormers supporter, trust me, I know the feeling of supporting a team that plays saftey first to an extent they are surprised when they get the ball- it might grind out a number of wins but invariably you fall short when up against a team willing to play a varied and dynamic game well). Just sort out the scrums (for the sake of time wasting and to get it reffed more consistently) and especially the breakdown. Teams are getting away with a lot at the breakdown and slow ball leads to ineffective attacking rugby. Thats where the two ref system has been good in the SA Varsity Cup; more eyes, each watching for different things and greater consistency in calls on the whole. The other 'inventions' Heineken mentioned are also great. Really, for anyone serious about law changes to get attacking rugby on the front foot again, have a look at the law trials in the SA varsity cup and Aussie national champs (some of them overlap). I am all for it.
 
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I agree that more reset scrums have become more apparent in recent years, that's why it can get frustrating. However this could be better controlled by the referees rather than changing the rules. At the end of the day, in any team sport, we are going to get some dull games and some exciting ones. It's just that we might notice it more now if this becomes an ongoing issue with the media!
 
heineken said:
This!!

It's not the lack of tries that is turning people away from rugby, it's the standard of refereeing, the calls that are made the one week, and the other week they take a total different route. The citing commisioners who give harsh sanctions to certain players, and small to zero sanctions to others.
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Truth.
 
Ehhh, I feel people who are quickly dismissing Hansen's concerns are simply burying their heads in the sand. Hansen didn't compile a lists of problems and then go to the press in this article, he simply answered a question from a journalist who spotted him while attending a France v Wales game. It's not Illuminati talk from Hansen, if anything he has as much to do with international rugby coaching as anyone - and he's in a position to say everything is going great.

I would certainly say from a rugby perspective that defenses have definitely tightened in the last 7 or 8 years. If it wasn't 4am I'd compile the number of tries scored in the RC/6 Nations, but since it is I can't be f*cked. Watching this years 6 Nations though I have to say it is boring as hell. And I know some will say its a NH vs SH thing, and others will say try-fests are not as enjoyable as close low scoring matches, but the reality is from a casual fan who is happy to catch the highlights as a judgement of how their team is going - no - the six nations is boring. And other international competitions are boring. And yes, you can say true fans will appreciate these matches more, but rugby can't grow catering to only an already captive audience. And winning games by penalties is more boring - unless you're someone who gets a kick purely by arguing an interpretive set of laws. People are exactly right that there are defense coaches out there whose only job is to teach their teams how to limit tries, through cynical means if necessary (and every team does it including the ABs) - the reality is that I just thinks limiting exciting rugby has become too profitable, that teams aren't incentivized to try as much.

A lot of it I agree has to do with the standard of refereeing (which I think is poor and is very responsible for negative tactics), but I think there are fundamental elements of the game which should be reviewed in accordance with the level of rugby now being played - as well as more practical protocols to assist refereeing (and I think some of the current practicals need to be abolished, such as the number of phases a TMO can review before a try - going back two or more phases is simply unacceptable and gives no accountability to refereeing)

I think calling a coach like Hanson - with a win record like his - whinging, is quite frankly stupid. He obviously is doing very well under the current climate. It's a legitimate concern. And yes rugby will still exist without changes - the point is will it gain a higher profile and build an audience. If there is anything Australia can teach us, is that when a games entertainment is taken for granted, fair weather fans can happily turn to an alternative.
 
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heineken said:
Well, Like I've said in other posts they should get coaches and players to participate in the law making procedure.

For instance, the scrummaging area: It makes absolutely no sense to ask someone like Percy Montgomery or Leigh Halfpenny to make a contribution at the scrums. Rather get a coach like Os Du Randt, who was also a 2-time World Cup winner, to assist in making the scrums and the laws surrounding it easier and better. I also made the suggestion to stop the time during the binding procedure up to when the scrumhalf puts in the ball, to prevent the scrum resets.

I also think that there should be some kind of Refereeing Summit. Get all the nations' referees, representatives, coaches and players together and put forward a plan to better the game and the refereeing standards as well as the laws.

This would also assist in the SH vs NH referees and their interpretations.

The Varsity Cup used the White Card where captains can invoke the White Card if they feel the ref made the wrong call, or missed something which should have been reviewed.
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How does the white card work exactly? Maybe someone reviews a penalty and the TMO has a different interpretation to the referee? It could make things confusing. Also some players pick up a yellow card for repeated infringements. A call like that would be difficult to challenge.
 
Sounds to me like both major leagues in Europe saw some cracking games this weekend! Maybe as @FrenchFan says, it is the international game that sucks......no argument from me!!
 
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the coaches are as much at fault as the players for the poor standard of rugby being played.
 
Maybe I should qualify.
I didn't say International rugby sucks in general. I watch 6N, RC, some Super 15 and I've seen some great games in this comps over the years.
I saw 2 very good games Wal-Eng and Ire-Eng in this year's championship. The rest of 6N games has been dross so far but maybe we'll see an improvement in last 2 weekends.

I noticed quite a few posts saying some of the 6N games were 'snoozefest' that seem to echo my own personal view. It's just a general observation.

Hansen's point is valid and it's interesting he made that point 6 mths before the WC.
 
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FrenchFan said:
Hansen's point is valid and it's interesting he made that point 6 mths before the WC.
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TBF it seems as though it was a legitimately impromptu interview - a journalist saw him and asked him for it, not a pre-organised thing.
 
TRF_nickdnz said:
Ehhh, I feel people who are quickly dismissing Hansen's concerns are simply burying their heads in the sand. Hansen didn't compile a lists of problems and then go to the press in this article, he simply answered a question from a journalist who spotted him while attending a France v Wales game. It's not Illuminati talk from Hansen, if anything he has as much to do with international rugby coaching as anyone - and he's in a position to say everything is going great.

I would certainly say from a rugby perspective that defenses have definitely tightened in the last 7 or 8 years. If it wasn't 4am I'd compile the number of tries scored in the RC/6 Nations, but since it is I can't be f*cked. Watching this years 6 Nations though I have to say it is boring as hell. And I know some will say its a NH vs SH thing, and others will say try-fests are not as enjoyable as close low scoring matches, but the reality is from a casual fan who is happy to catch the highlights as a judgement of how their team is going - no - the six nations is boring. And other international competitions are boring. And yes, you can say true fans will appreciate these matches more, but rugby can't grow catering to only an already captive audience. And winning games by penalties is more boring - unless you're someone who gets a kick purely by arguing an interpretive set of laws. People are exactly right that there are defense coaches out there whose only job is to teach their teams how to limit tries, through cynical means if necessary (and every team does it including the ABs) - the reality is that I just thinks limiting exciting rugby has become too profitable, that teams aren't incentivized to try as much.

A lot of it I agree has to do with the standard of refereeing (which I think is poor and is very responsible for negative tactics), but I think there are fundamental elements of the game which should be reviewed in accordance with the level of rugby now being played - as well as more practical protocols to assist refereeing (and I think some of the current practicals need to be abolished, such as the number of phases a TMO can review before a try - going back two or more phases is simply unacceptable and gives no accountability to refereeing)

I think calling a coach like Hanson - with a win record like his - whinging, is quite frankly stupid. He obviously is doing very well under the current climate. It's a legitimate concern. And yes rugby will still exist without changes - the point is will it gain a higher profile and build an audience. If there is anything Australia can teach us, is that when a games entertainment is taken for granted, fair weather fans can happily turn to an alternative.
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Thought you couldn't go back more than 2 phases anyway? Certainly, that seemed to be coming up in the TMO review of the Attwood never try against Wales.

As for the wider tenor of it - I've been hearing these warnings for years and years and the only thing that seems to be happening is rugby growing except in Australia. I don't want to be overly dismissive of a guy like Hansen but the fact is, without something new, he's not saying nothing I haven't considered and looked for many times before with no result.
 
Peat said:
Thought you couldn't go back more than 2 phases anyway?
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Not unless it's a case of foul play - in which case they can go back as far as they like.

Unless there are big fundamental issues with the administration of the grassroots of the game, a sport like Rugby will continue to grow in-line with the increase in investment it sees.
I wouldn't take the health of the business side as a particularly good measure of the sporting side - unless someone really, really ****s up the fundamentals of the game then it isn't going to suddenly shrink.

We've seen before that when you make law amendments the game does change significantly in some cases - the ELV's and the recent "tackling in the air" situation for example.
You can change the game fairly easily if there is a desire to.

I think you're dismissing the notion that a significant number of people feel that rugby is currently too stop-start and is dominated by kicking and set-piece.
That's not to say that tactical/territorial kicking and set-pieces don't have a place, because they certainly do, but they should not be what (to me, at least) feels like 50% of the game.
I don't want rugby to be like basketball, sevens or RL... nor do I want it to be like American Football. At the moment it feels like it flows more like an NFL game than it should.
 
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Award more points for a try, would that solve it?
 
Feel the game is leaning too far one way =/= stop supporting it/others stop taking it up.

Personally, the swinginess and draconic nature of reffing decisions means I currently refuse to pay money to see the game. I am watching less and less rugby. But that doesn't mean my feelings are universal or that the game doesn't appear to be growing.
 
Are people getting turned off the game though? I haven't checked, but it seems that the recent TV deal signings would suggest an increase in viewership ... More people watching the game is kind of contrary to the argument that anything needs to change.

More tries does not equal better rugby in my opinion - quality defense, and proficiency in the set piece are both important and essential components to the game in my book, and changes run the risk of changing one of the best parts of Rugby (that it's a game for all shapes and sizes) although that's already under siege.

I'm more than a little suspicious of Steve Hanson's timing - does he really want all teams to be less defense oriented, or just the ABs opponents?
 

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