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having our pacific players back would be awesome

This isnthe same guy who pushed through s nations league plan that would have destroyed pacific islands rugby (whcih wasn't his plan in fairness, but still worth mentioning)
 
The Pacific Rugby Players Welfare organisation has cautiously backed a call by World Rugby president Bill Beaumont to allow players to turn out for Pacific test rugby teams after representing other nations.
100% against this.

The entire point, the whole bloody point of having nations against each other was not to be able to purchase talent from others. It levelled the playing field between rich and poor. I don't have a problem with Manu Tuilagi playing for England. I do have a problem with him wanting to play for Samoa (he's pretty much said this a couple of times) and choosing to play for England for money.
But I don't have a realistic solution as things stand now.

I understand someone born in country A, moved as a kid to country B and playing for country B. You can also have country's A nationality while being born in country B. Fine, that's perfect.
But once you wear country A's national jersey, you shouldn't be able to wear any other national side. Junior's included.
 
Yep, I think it's a terrible idea as well.
Jerome Kaino turning out for another country after being such a massive part of the All Blacks for over a decade would be a joke.


If you read what Dan Leo says, he said it's a review not a certainty - could be playing for votes with the power struggle going on atm. Pichot has always been vocal about "poaching", which means a number of Tier 2 nations will lean towards him. If Beaumont says he'll considering allowing Tier 2 players to play for 2 International sides then he'll win those votes back easy.
 
I think the article is misleading as I don't think it's intended for players like Tuilagi or Kaino.

I think they have players with a handful of caps in mind who haven't played for the Tier 1 nation for quite a while. Players like Moala or Pulu who are mentioned in the article. I don't think I'd object to that too much.

If it had an upper limit of say 5 caps, I think it's fine.
 
Agree with the cap limit otherwise it's only going to benefit the few experienced players
 
It's not about the amount, it's about the principle.

If every country can poach whatever talent they want from poorer/lower tier nations what's the difference between this and club rugby? This is supposed to be something else.
This reduces the consequences of poaching.

I understand the reality of the world has changed and that people are not born, raised, educated and live in the same place. Granted, that's ok.
But i don't think asking a player to pick a side, as his HOME and then sticking to it, is asking for much to be honest.

We are not talking about 12-year-olds. We are talking about people who are in 99,9% of the cases legal adults who can vote. Not sure how it is in the UK (most replies in this thread) but in a lot (i'd say most but i'm not sure) you can't be part of any military branch if you've served elsewhere. I'd apply a similar principle. The key concept here is allegiance.

Again, i'm not saying they can't choose. I'm saying the need to do so carefully. And yes, they can't go back. Decisions come with benefits and consequences.
 
I am against this 100% if players can transfer between nations it undermines the whole point of international teams.

I am against Project Players for the same reason. I can't imagine the average South African grows up dreaming of playing for Scotland or Ireland
 
for those arguing the "point of international rugby" is diminished by this: the point of international rugby was originally and continuously for this day to provide entertainment that turned a profit. If this helps more countries have profitable games, it is more in tune with the purpose of international rugby.

The idea that you can only play for one national team in your lifetime is. a rather new rule. Pat Lam played for both Samoa and New Zealand in the 1990s. A fair amount of players had done it up until the early 2000s.

Most of you would never notice if Jerome Kaino kitted up for the US because you never watch the US play, so pretending that you think it's a joke is about the same as someone in New York complaining about immigrants in Texas taking your job.

I'm for tighter eligibility rules ( i.e., you shouldn't be able to earn residency years when that union is paying your salary), but I'm fine with people playing for any of the country's they have eligibility. If the six nations or the Rugby Championship want to make it that you can only play for one country in the lifetime of that tournament, that's fine. But the actual joke is World Rugby telling the Pacific Nations they can't use players born on their island who want to play for them in the Pacific Nations Cup.

And Cruz, both our countries have a history of poaching other country's military officers, why should rugby players held to a higher standard?
 
Most of you would never notice if Jerome Kaino kitted up for the US because you never watch the US play, so pretending that you think it's a joke is about the same as someone in New York complaining about immigrants in Texas taking your job.
That's ********
 
That's ********
Do you have an actual response? Cause I can't think of any legitimate way in which a player turning up in the pacific nations cup or America's rugby championship after playing for another country would affect the way you view rugby?
 
Do you have an actual response? Cause I can't think of any legitimate way in which a player turning up in the pacific nations cup or America's rugby championship after playing for another country would affect the way you view rugby?
You just view rugby in a very cynical way,

Even if it is just a money spinner (and no it wasn't always that way, international rugby goes back over a century - England vs Scotland in the 1800s wasn't exactly making anyone a millionaire - in fact the tests were free) the fans can still want it to mean more/view it as meaning more.
I want to see the best players from a country (or best players produced by a country) playing against each other - if you throw your hat in the ring with one you can't just then turn around and play for another because you're no longer good enough, or you wanted to go take a big money contract somewhere than makes you ineligible. If Nathan Hughes wanted to play for Fiji so much then he should have done so and not tried for the ABs and England first.
It's a romanticised view of the game but I don't really care - I don't like seeing players who don't give a **** about the shirt turning out for England.
International caps should mean more than a payday.
 
For me
Had to be born or have parents from said nation, like a 20 cap limit, a significant time between the last international test like 3 years and potentially have so the nation is 5 ranks lower.
I would be fine with it.

I don't really see the issue then.

International rugby is already "undermined" when Aki and Stander are singing the national anthems.
Are they anymore deserving of playing for Ireland cause they have lived there for 4/5 years than say fijian born Taqele Naiyaravoro is for playing for Fiji because he has 2 caps from the wallabies 5 years ago?
 
The first match was organized by a newspaper and charged admission. Don't let romance get in the way of history.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/scotland/sportscotland/asportingnation/article/0007/print.shtml

The current system already has pacific island players refusing to play for their national team until they've accepted they won't make the wallabies or all blacks. Both systems result in players preferring to play for tier 1 nations, but the new one would at least allow the pacific islands to get some benefit from the players before they lose them to the all blacks.*

* not that the all blacks are "poaching" players, just that players eligible for two nations will usually choose the better one
 
For me
Had to be born or have parents from said nation, like a 20 cap limit, a significant time between the last international test like 3 years and potentially have so the nation is 5 ranks lower.
I would be fine with it.

I don't really see the issue then.

International rugby is already "undermined" when Aki and Stander are singing the national anthems.
Are they anymore deserving of playing for Ireland cause they have lived there for 4/5 years than say fijian born Taqele Naiyaravoro is for playing for Fiji because he has 2 caps from the wallabies 5 years ago?
If it has to happen then I'd be more OK with it with a cap limit and then international stand down,
Max of 5 caps and then 5yr stand down to requalify.
 
for those arguing the "point of international rugby" is diminished by this: the point of international rugby was originally and continuously for this day to provide entertainment that turned a profit.
I agree with the last, but i don't think you understand my point. That profit will go down because people like myself will lose interest. Not saying i'll stop watching rugby, but i'll stick to club/franchise.

Again, for me, and i'm pretty sure i am not alone here, the idea of nations facing each other is one that comes with certain constraints. You can maximize profits within those constraints, but if you move outside of those, count me out. I understand that the concept of nationality has changed and we need to adapt, but if anyone can play for any nation as long as he and that RU want it, then the idea of nation is dead and having nations playing against each other, as representatives of that nation, is pointless.

Most of you would never notice if Jerome Kaino kitted up for the US because you never watch the US play, so pretending that you think it's a joke is about the same as someone in New York complaining about immigrants in Texas taking your job.

********. You speak of arguments and the next thing you do is come up with a strawman. You are better than that (i mean it as a compliment).

And Cruz, both our countries have a history of poaching other country's military officers, why should rugby players held to a higher standard?
Cant speak for yours. I haven't checked the law in a while, but i'm pretty sure legally in Arg they are not allowed to. Either they are intelligence officers/operatives or they got in illegally (fake name and docs).

Regarding the why, because that is what i expect from people who claim to represent their country. I see representing the country as a privilege, not a right.
Again, if this is a free-for-all and the one with biggest pockets gets the best players then count me out. I'll watch club rugby where that is already institutionalized and the risk of paying for a pig in a poke is low.

That is for the "principles" part of the argument. My other argument is of a practical nature. The more countries are allowed to import and export players, the more the rich will benefit at the expense of the poor. Yeah sure, some will mention Pacific islanders and NZ as the exception. What they won't mention is that the players who could have played for both and chose PI over NZ are, in their vast majority would never have made it to the All Blacks. In other words, yes, there are a lot of cross overs, but the pacific islanders that play for NZ are the PI's best, while the NZ that play for the PIslanders are the All Blacks scraps. Harsh but accurate.

Again, rich benefiting at the expense of the poor. I wholeheartedly believe that it is bad for the game. It further concentrates the game on a few nations. I think we all agree that's not something that will attract newcomers, quite the opposite.

Do you think there are no second-tier Argentine players that could easily make it in Uruguay's team?
Uruguayans would rather chop an arm than letting that happen. I respect that. I want to see it more often.

When i see the likes CJ Stander (one of my favourite players, ever) singing whatever the Irish sing these days before the game starts, i don't like it. I don't like it one bit.

The current system already has pacific island players refusing to play for their national team until they've accepted they won't make the wallabies or all blacks.
This is a problem, and a big one, granted. I can think of a few ways around it but something's gotta give.
 
I'm an American (soon to be) lawyer, I have no rock bottom.

I highly doubt you watch the teams who would be taking advantage of this rule change as it is now, so you not watching would not lead to a change in viewership of these comps.

The whole point is that players are choosing playing for the All Blacks or the Wallabies instead of playing for the PIs as it is. PI eligible players aren't willing to represent the PI because they will lose their Super Rugby contracts if they play for another country. If they are free to play for a PI and keep eligibility for NZ or Oz they will keep their Super Rugby Contracts. If they are good enough, they will be lost to the bigger country no matter what. At least give the PIs a chance to make a good impression on the player, maybe some will choose to play for the PI.

Argentina and Uruguay is an inapt comparison unless loads of Argentinians are eligible for Uruguay through heritage. I'm against players qualifying for residency under non-personal reasons. The idea that idea would result Tier 1 rejects flooding T2 nations is an actual strawman. 1. Have you seen the American National team, it's like half tier 1 rejects. 2. How many players would actually be eligible to take advantage of this? Some former all blacks and wallabies and Toby Flood.
 
You keep saying this but this is one of the few places you'll find people who specifically set out to watch every international game regardless of nation/comp
So you watch the ARC and PNC?

I also think saying "this is one of the few places" kind of points to the fact very few people would even notice the change.
 

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