HEC P4: Northampton Saints vs Ulster Rugby

[Teh Mite]

Franklins Gardens - 07/12/2012 - 20:00​

 

[SelimNiai]

Have a feeling this is going to be the game of the round

 

[coonor]

I really think Ulster could sneak this but I'll be happy enough with a losing bonus point.

 

[Teh Mite]

Name 'em as early as they can:

Ulster squad:
Forwards (16) Rob Herring, Rory Best, Nigel Brady, Ricky Lutton, Callum Black, Tom Court, John Afoa, Neil McComb, Johann Muller, Dan Tuohy, Iain Henderson, Robbie Diack, Chris Henry, Mike McComish, Roger Wilson, Nick Williams. Backs (11) Ruan Pienaar, Paul Marshall, Paddy Jackson, Paddy Wallace, Luke Marshall, Darren Cave, Michael Allen, Tommy Bowe, Andrew Trimble, Craig Gilroy, Jared Payne.

 

[Peat]

Name 'em as early as they can:

Ulster squad:
Forwards (16) Rob Herring, Rory Best, Nigel Brady, Ricky Lutton, Callum Black, Tom Court, John Afoa, Neil McComb, Johann Muller, Dan Tuohy, Iain Henderson, Robbie Diack, Chris Henry, Mike McComish, Roger Wilson, Nick Williams. Backs (11) Ruan Pienaar, Paul Marshall, Paddy Jackson, Paddy Wallace, Luke Marshall, Darren Cave, Michael Allen, Tommy Bowe, Andrew Trimble, Craig Gilroy, Jared Payne.

Herring, McComish, McComb and Allen to drop out out of that imo. Got an inkling that, with the exception of Henderson, Ulster will plump for experience in all the tight calls to be made here selection-wise.

 

[coonor]

Anyone know when Ferris is due back?

I think that I would start Trimble and Bowe on the wings with Gilroy coming on early in the second half. Trimble may not be great for Ireland but he has had a very good start to the season with Ulster.

 

[UlsterRugby2012]

Anyone know when Ferris is due back?

I think that I would start Trimble and Bowe on the wings with Gilroy coming on early in the second half. Trimble may not be great for Ireland but he has had a very good start to the season with Ulster.

Ferris is back in a couple of weeks I think, not too long, and I agree with Trimble.

I think Allen has a shot though Peat, he's been very impressive so far and I think he'd be a good choice off the bench covering the wings and centre. Hooker is tough, Brady just isn't that good anymore, but Herring has been actually quite decent especially in defense.


Mite when was the last time you lot lost at home? & what's your call on this game?

Edit: Ferris just had another surgery coonor. So idk when he'll be back actually.

 

[Amiga500]

I'm worried.

We're coming into this on some pretty crappy form which has been papered over with results. OK, some say the sign of a good team and all that... but it'll not stop me being concerned.


Personally, I see 7 big decisions on the Ulster team:

Court or Black - I'd go for Black, probably the only decision of the lot I'd feel strongly about, he is a much better scrummager and much better suited to the task than Tom Court, who would be easier to get under and drive up.
Herring or Best - Rory's lineout throwing was not good last week and he is only combing back from injury. Depending on how he goes in training this week (which is essentially only Tues/Wed), I'd make my choice.
Tuohy or McComb - I'd back Tuohy although would not in any way be displeased with McComb.
Henderson or Diack - Hmmmm.... experience vs. youthful exuberance. Toss a coin.
Wilson or Williams - Personally, I'd run with Wilson for first 50-60, Williams for the remainder.
Wallace or L. Marshall - Marshall for me, bigger ballast for the midfield defence.
Gilroy or Trimble - If its looking like a wet night, Trimble, if dry, Gilroy.


The others mostly pick themselves. Afoa, Muller, Henry, Pienaar, Jackson, Cave, Bowe and Payne are definite starters.

 

[Teh Mite]

Bagsie underdogs.

Saints have no hope.

Ulster have all the pressure on them.

Ulster by a million.

Anyone who says otherwise is a leftie.

 

[coonor]

I'm worried.

We're coming into this on some pretty crappy form which has been papered over with results. OK, some say the sign of a good team and all that... but it'll not stop me being concerned.


Personally, I see 7 big decisions on the Ulster team:

Court or Black - I'd go for Black, probably the only decision of the lot I'd feel strongly about, he is a much better scrummager and much better suited to the task than Tom Court, who would be easier to get under and drive up.
Herring or Best - Rory's lineout throwing was not good last week and he is only combing back from injury. Depending on how he goes in training this week (which is essentially only Tues/Wed), I'd make my choice.
Tuohy or McComb - I'd back Tuohy although would not in any way be displeased with McComb.
Henderson or Diack - Hmmmm.... experience vs. youthful exuberance. Toss a coin.
Wilson or Williams - Personally, I'd run with Wilson for first 50-60, Williams for the remainder.


Wallace or L. Marshall - Marshall for me, bigger ballast for the midfield defence.
Gilroy or Trimble - If its looking like a wet night, Trimble, if dry, Gilroy.


The others mostly pick themselves. Afoa, Muller, Henry, Pienaar, Jackson, Cave, Bowe and Payne are definite starters.

I disagree, Ulster have played three away games with virtually a half strength team. They have gone to Italy and beaten Zebre and Treviso (which is a difficult game). Last week they beat the team in the position below them, it was a crucial game and they came away with a win. Yes it was an understength Scarlet's team but none the less it's never easy to win in Wales. Look at Leinster, in the Rabo they rarely look particularly brilliant but when it comes to the H-Cup they step up and play to their potential. That's what Ulster have to do.

I don't really understand why you would make so many changes to a team that is undefeated. Court, Best and Afoa have to play considering the scrummaging power of Northampton. Touhy and Muller are top Heineken Cup class, this game is a level above McComb although i'm fine with him on the bench, probably more likely that Diack will be though. Henderson has been one of Ulster's best forwards so I don't see why you would not start him. Wilson knows the Saints very well, his knolwedge on the pitch will be invaluable. Wallace and Cave are a well tested and successful partnership and Trimble has done nothing to drop the Ulster shirt.

Don't get wrong, Ulster will have to play a whole lot better to put them selves in a position to beat the Saints but Ulster are the team to beat in this pool.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Might there be VBookies for these games seeing as there is little action otherwise? I'm tempted to back Ulster.

 

[Amiga500]

I disagree, Ulster have played three away games with virtually a half strength team.

Yes, we did win, but were extremely lucky to do so against Zebre and Treviso (the Zebre match in particular was a travesty of justice).

I don't really understand why you would make so many changes to a team that is undefeated. Court, Best and Afoa have to play considering the scrummaging power of Northampton.

Its is precisely because of the scrummaging power of Northampton I would pick Black - he is a significantly better scrummager than Tom Court.

Best and Herring for me are much of a muchness, perhaps Rory is slightly better at getting turnover ball, against that however, Herrings throws seem to be more consistent.

Touhy and Muller are top Heineken Cup class, this game is a level above McComb although i'm fine with him on the bench, probably more likely that Diack will be though. Henderson has been one of Ulster's best forwards so I don't see why you would not start him. Wilson knows the Saints very well, his knolwedge on the pitch will be invaluable.

I think thats harsh on McComb, he has been doing as well as Dan Touhy so far this season.

Yeah, Diack would probably end up being the bench option with Hendo being 2nd row cover (while playing).

Yes, The Next Willie John McBride (Henderson) is playing well, but Diack was a man inspired earlier in the season before getting injured. He was playing better then than Henderson is now - so if he was at his favoured 6 (rather than makeshift 2nd row), I don't see much in it between the two.

Wallace and Cave are a well tested and successful partnership and Trimble has done nothing to drop the Ulster shirt.

While Paddy Wallace is never less than 100% committed, frequently putting his body on the line in the tackle, but having an equally comitted man with another stone of ballast doesn't hurt.

Besides, Luke Marshall can do pretty much everything Paddy can do. I think Mark Anscombe will go for Wallace, I personally would go for Marshall.

Don't get wrong, Ulster will have to play a whole lot better to put them selves in a position to beat the Saints but Ulster are the team to beat in this pool.

Definitely - the unbeaten record means we've a big bullseye on our back and Jim Bowen (super, smashing, great, can't beat a bit of bully) egging on fellas to hit it!

 

[Peat]

If young Skywalker only has an extra stone on Wallace I'm shocked. He's not as composed as Wallace though.

To go through the other ones...

Problem is a lot of choices haven't proven themselves at the top level. Black looks a better scrummager than Court at the moment, but we've seen Court do it against the very best and not Black. Ditto Herring and Best, not that we've really seen Rory play since last year. Not been a lot between McComb and Tuohy either, although I think Tuohy's done a lot of dog work unnoticed and clearly has a far higher ceiling of performance.

I also think that the NJWMB was playing as well as Diack at the start of the season - and I'd back him to the hilt. Elsewise, I'd opt for experience, as this will be a close one, despite that commie's attempts to say otherwise.

 

[Teh Mite]

NORTHAMPTON SAINTS TEAM TO PLAY ULSTER
Heineken Cup Round 3
Franklin's Gardens
Friday, December 7th, 2012
Kick off 8:00pm
15 Ben FODEN
14 Ken PISI
13 George PISI
12 Dom WALDOUCK
11 Jamie ELLIOTT
10 Ryan LAMB
9 Martin ROBERTS
1 Soane TONGA'UIHA
2 Dylan HARTLEY (capt)
3 Brian MUJATI
4 Samu MANOA
5 Courtney LAWES
6 Calum CLARK
7 Tom WOOD
8 GJ VAN VELZE
Replacements
16 Mike HAYWOOD
17 Alex WALLER
18 Paul DORAN JONES
19 Mark SORENSON
20 Phil DOWSON
21 Lee DICKSON
22 Stephen MYLER
23 Tom MAY

 

[Gavin]

Ulster: 15 Jared Payne, 14 Tommy Bowe, 13 Darren Cave, 12 Paddy Wallace, 11 Andrew Trimble, 10 Paddy Jackson, 9 Ruan Pienaar, 8 Roger Wilson , 7 Chris Henry, 6 Iain Henderson, 5 Dan Tuohy, 4 Johann Muller (c), 3 John Afoa, 2 Rory Best, 1 Tom Court.
Replacements: 16 Nigel Brady, 17 Callum Black, 18 Ricky Lutton, 19 Robbie Diack, 20 Nick Wiliams, 21 Paul Marshall, 22 Luke Marshall, 23 Craig Gilroy.

 

[Teh Mite]

In the pack, GVV is the only real weak link. The plan is clearly to stick a fist up Ulsters arse and squeeze whatever they find.

In the backs though, Roberts is too much of a sniper, Lamb is a 10 so flakey by default, Elliott is still only potential, Wapduck still has to find his way, Ken Pisi is fading after a bright start and if this forum is to be believed at times, Foden is utter garbage who never attacks (obviously).

One for the purists, not a highlight reel.

 

[Peat]

Who will be calling Northampton's lineout?

As for Ulster, as expected really.

 

[Teh Mite]

Wood and Lawes.

 

[Peat]

Wood and Lawes.

That's the answer I was hoping for from an England PoV.

 

[Amiga500]

As for Ulster, as expected really.

Yeah, pretty much, MA has decided it is a night for wiser heads than youthful exuberance.

Kinda surprised at Rob Herring's omission for outside-centre/fly-half/full-back/flanker/part-time-hooker Nigel Brady though. Although Nige's versatility does open up a whole range of options!