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Heineken Champions Cup - Rd 4

UlsterRugby2012

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Lowry AGAIN with another great break. It's honestly ridiculous at this point his form
 

Le Frére Alpha

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Clermont just evolved into a team that doesn't have JJ Hanrahan and it was beautiful.
 

UlsterRugby2012

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2 mistakes already from Gilroy. Honestly he's been poor the last couple of seasons, I'd much rather blood some younger players. Where is Rob Lyttle?
 

UlsterRugby2012

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It would be interesting to know the difference between Ulster and Leinster currently in coaching. We're at a point where the two teams are closest in ability in a long time, yet if it was Leinster today they would have continued to put 50 on them when the score was 34-12.

What is it about the Leinster players that continue to put their foot down yet we seem to switch off? Is it a confidence issue? Maybe it will come with time if we keep this up.

Edit: Also if we released Gilroy tomorrow I wouldn't blink an eye. He's probably a wage burden and doesn't seem like he'll ever get back to his best, very poor from him.
 

Reiser99

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I wonder what would happen if Wasps score 4 tries and get a losing BP, but also lose by more than 20 points. At that point they would be on 7 with Cardiff and Toulouse. However, they would go above Toulouse on head to head, but below Cardiff on points difference.

These are the rules that I am assuming are correct from Wikipedia:
  1. Where teams have played each other
    1. The club with the greater number of competition points from only matches involving tied teams.
    2. If equal, the club with the best aggregate points difference from those matches.
    3. If equal, the club that scored the most tries in those matches.
  2. Where teams remain tied and/or have not played each other in the competition (i.e. are from different pools)
    1. The club with the best aggregate points difference from the pool stage.
    2. If equal, the club that scored the most tries in the pool stage.
    3. If equal, the club with the fewest players suspended in the pool stage.
    4. If equal, the drawing of lots will determine a club's ranking.
So Toulouse would go ahead of Cardiff but behind Wasps based because they have played each other and so are subject to the first set of criteria, but Cardiff and Wasps haven't played each other so they would be subject to the second and if Wasps got a LBP, but also lost by 21 points or more then you have a situation where each team would be above another, but below another.
 

munstermuffin

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I think unless Wasps beat us tomorrow it is Ulster vs Toulouse in last 16.
Now call me negative but that is more punishment than reward for Ulster clunching number 2 seed.
Yes you get home 2nd leg but well that is not huge
 

Tooting Carmen

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What the hell happened to the Scarlets? It was a strong line-up and they were very much in the match until the hour had passed.
 

Goodey

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I wonder what would happen if Wasps score 4 tries and get a losing BP, but also lose by more than 20 points. At that point they would be on 7 with Cardiff and Toulouse. However, they would go above Toulouse on head to head, but below Cardiff on points difference.

These are the rules that I am assuming are correct from Wikipedia:
  1. Where teams have played each other
    1. The club with the greater number of competition points from only matches involving tied teams.
    2. If equal, the club with the best aggregate points difference from those matches.
    3. If equal, the club that scored the most tries in those matches.
  2. Where teams remain tied and/or have not played each other in the competition (i.e. are from different pools)
    1. The club with the best aggregate points difference from the pool stage.
    2. If equal, the club that scored the most tries in the pool stage.
    3. If equal, the club with the fewest players suspended in the pool stage.
    4. If equal, the drawing of lots will determine a club's ranking.
So Toulouse would go ahead of Cardiff but behind Wasps based because they have played each other and so are subject to the first set of criteria, but Cardiff and Wasps haven't played each other so they would be subject to the second and if Wasps got a LBP, but also lost by 21 points or more then you have a situation where each team would be above another, but below another.
I think the first tie breaker is points difference, not head to head. - https://www.epcrugby.com/champions-cup/format/rules/:
1642883423991


Someone on Wikipedia has presumably just copied and pasted some old tie breaker rules
 

Groundhog

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I think unless Wasps beat us tomorrow it is Ulster vs Toulouse in last 16.
Now call me negative but that is more punishment than reward for Ulster clunching number 2 seed.
Yes you get home 2nd leg but well that is not huge
Not ideal, but if Wasps turned Toulouse over, Ulster can too. Leinster only team I would really hate at home.
 

Le Frére Alpha

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Not ideal, but if Wasps turned Toulouse over, Ulster can too. Leinster only team I would really hate at home.
I'd back Toulouse with their big guns back over anyone in the comp. Ulster will definitely be pulling for Wasps or Stade (I think they're still alive) to bail them out.
 

BPM

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It would be interesting to know the difference between Ulster and Leinster currently in coaching. We're at a point where the two teams are closest in ability in a long time, yet if it was Leinster today they would have continued to put 50 on them when the score was 34-12.

What is it about the Leinster players that continue to put their foot down yet we seem to switch off? Is it a confidence issue? Maybe it will come with time if we keep this up.

Edit: Also if we released Gilroy tomorrow I wouldn't blink an eye. He's probably a wage burden and doesn't seem like he'll ever get back to his best, very poor from him.
Just got home from the game.

I get the point you’re trying to make and I agree that Ulster still lack a bit of killer instinct but I don’t think you can seriously compare Leinster playing Bath in their embarrassing current guise (AKA dogsh*t) to Clermont.

My take was that the Clermont bench was much, much stronger and changed the game in the final quarter. Lopez and Penaud are top players who made a very noticeable impact. Ulster bought on the likes of Shanahan and Jones who are no more then OK.

Agreed on Gilroy though.
 

Le Frére Alpha

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It would be interesting to know the difference between Ulster and Leinster currently in coaching. We're at a point where the two teams are closest in ability in a long time, yet if it was Leinster today they would have continued to put 50 on them when the score was 34-12.

What is it about the Leinster players that continue to put their foot down yet we seem to switch off? Is it a confidence issue? Maybe it will come with time if we keep this up.

Edit: Also if we released Gilroy tomorrow I wouldn't blink an eye. He's probably a wage burden and doesn't seem like he'll ever get back to his best, very poor from him.
Bench is still a way off I reckon. 6 Ireland internationals, 1 starter and Frawley who has plenty of experience at the level all available.

Also Clermont brought on better players than they started which doesn't make things any easier to a fatigued and weakened Ulster side.

I think both teams are in a good place but need to find more to win this competition. I wouldn't be massively confident for either going away to France in the latter stages.
 

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