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Heineken Cup 1/4F - Toulon v Leinster

FrenchFan

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*would. You picked the right conjugation for your sentence there. And btw I PM'ed you you dick, go answer me !!

FrenchFan, one problem doesn't disable another or make it irrelevant or powerless. Yes the FFR are fkn ape IQ-leveled gigolos who don't seem to give a flying, swimming, vomiting SHHIT about the very state of French Rugby or our team's success. It seems highly, highly political up there....

BUT: that doesn't mean all of a sudden the hordes of foreigners has nothing at all to do with the state of French Rugby. It hasn't affected our national team badly yet, but if this progression keeps up, just you watch. We'll start picking more and more guys for the great prestigious XV de France...from the BENCHES of the Top 14.

But right now right now, it's the FFR clearly and indisputably no matter the potential opposing arguments that is fkin up our chances at the top.

Also, I do love Urios, he looks so involved each match and to get his modest boys to beat freaking Toulon and Clermont and co., goddamn, headcoach has got to have a lot to do with that.
Pelous is teaching the little Bleus, so nothing like test level Rugby when you have to coach France and show up against the All-Blacks or Srpingboks...but he's definitely there in our subconscious.
I think you could make the case that the national team doesn't need a coach. The national coach doesn't actually coach like a Top14 club coach does, for the simple fact that he doesn't spend enough time with the players. He is a selector, he picks the team with the input from the selection comitee at FFR. Seriously he is a mere figurehead. The current setup doesn't give him any room for any coaching as such...
 

FrenchFan

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*would. You picked the right conjugation for your sentence there. And btw I PM'ed you you dick, go answer me !!

FrenchFan, one problem doesn't disable another or make it irrelevant or powerless. Yes the FFR are fkn ape IQ-leveled gigolos who don't seem to give a flying, swimming, vomiting SHHIT about the very state of French Rugby or our team's success. It seems highly, highly political up there....

BUT: that doesn't mean all of a sudden the hordes of foreigners has nothing at all to do with the state of French Rugby. It hasn't affected our national team badly yet, but if this progression keeps up, just you watch. We'll start picking more and more guys for the great prestigious XV de France...from the BENCHES of the Top 14.

But right now right now, it's the FFR clearly and indisputably no matter the potential opposing arguments that is fkin up our chances at the top.

Also, I do love Urios, he looks so involved each match and to get his modest boys to beat freaking Toulon and Clermont and co., goddamn, headcoach has got to have a lot to do with that.
Pelous is teaching the little Bleus, so nothing like test level Rugby when you have to coach France and show up against the All-Blacks or Srpingboks...but he's definitely there in our subconscious.
I have no idea to what extent the foreigners here will impact on the national side. The Irish Oracles here seem to know best. Let them talk. Talk is cheap for the Irish.

I was simply remarking in a previous post that the national team has been there before. in 1999 they placed last in 5N followed by a final in the WC in the same year. There was an open riff btw the 2 national coaches (sorry selectors) of the time (Skrela Villepreux) and a few senior internationals (Galthie one of the leaders). All this is well known and documented. Only relating facts here, not putting any personal spin. I think this will happen again with the current squad and PSA who is out of his depth and clearly not developing any side for the next WC. Now on a personal note, I couldn't give a **** honestly. No concern of mine. I found club issues and Top14 as a competition far more interesting, coaching youngsters etc far more rewarding. It keeps my feet on the ground and me challenged.
Maybe the foreigners will impact negatively in the short term (3 to 5 years) if the situation is allowed to continue. Personally I think it went overboard a long time ago. There's way too many of them. Even in ProD2 which I find odd. I can understand the pressure that the big Top14 squads are under and resort to hiring experienced and talented foreigners to survive the league and meet their targets. But ProD2 clubs?! What's their excuse? Many of the foreigners have seen here and there in ProD2 are substandard players. Its just foreign dross polluting our rugby. They should be allowed to go home.
The one development of note during the last 6N is the widening gulf btw the Federation and the big clubs which I believe is having an even more direct fallout on the national side. Toulouse have clearly ignored the convention btw LNR & FFR and will not play ball anymore. In practical terms, this translates into a nasty undercurrent where top players will be "talked into" focusing on their club career...
The Federation have ****** off the big clubs, Toulouse in particular. They should never have done what they did. Never heard our president get so vocal in the media as he is a gentleman and not known for opening his gob in the media. But there you go. The Federation should have done everything they could to avoid that thru a bit of "diplomacy". But hey what do they know. Bottom line is they have ****** off Toulouse, the biggest providers of internationals in the last 30 years. They can sort out the mess now. The tour to Australia? it'll be a circus. They will most likely not have the players they want.
 

Big Ewis

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I think you could make the case that the national team doesn't need a coach. The national coach doesn't actually coach like a Top14 club coach does, for the simple fact that he doesn't spend enough time with the players. He is a selector, he picks the team with the input from the selection comitee at FFR. Seriously he is a mere figurehead. The current setup doesn't give him any room for any coaching as such...
that much does seem very true...

However I disagree with what you're saying as a whole, although most of the separate things you say are true.
The FFR is accusing the clubs of things, and the clubs are accusing the FFR of things. In reality for a neutral, they're BOTH doing wrong to each other. But neither side will look at it this way and wants the entire cake, who ever wanted to share in this world of men, just look at Israel and the Palestinians as the most intense example.

They're both playing the ostrich game, it's an absolute cacophony from a logical perspective, and you can't work with someone if he doesn't want to work with you. You can force him though, but we're sitting back and watching what that's accomplishing - clubs are just ignoring the deals...

Of of the aspects of clubs - the main one in fact back in the day - is to train guys, make them into elite national products so they can go compete for their nation on the highest stage there is.
But now that the Top 14 has turned into an industry, and every league in the world (all sports included) either has been that way for long or is following suit - it's all about winning. And to win, injecting talent sure helps. And you said it yourself, even the ProD2 has a bunch of internationals now, because that reality has steamrolled all over the nation.

There are no two ways about it. What do you want, French Rugby ? Because you can't have both. Do you want success at the top at national test level, or do you want the Top 14 ? Because the truth is the Top 14 has become too big, too much. Just look at Toulouse, Clermont, Toulon, Montpellier, SF, Racing etc...they've become titans.

The Top 14 is so huge it's attracting more and more internationals (from Top Tier 1 circles) to drop their own league, abandon their country or hopes to play internationally themselves ever again for England, NZ, Australia, SA...etc...and come to France and compete there. The Bouclier de Brennus and H Cup have become a very relic in world Rugby right now. Wilkinson and Andrew Sheridan have said many times they didn't want to go back to play for England or the Lions Tour or wtvr because they wanted to focus full time on Toulon Rugby. On that Top 14 title.

It's become so big it's leaving no room for French national rugby. Just the natural laws of space management. It's eating up the XV de France.

Now I repeat the question:
what do you want, French Rugby: the current Top 14 or the XV de France and 6N Grand Slams and World Cup finals etc...? Coz you can't have both.
 

munstermuffin

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Lads we can send you Eddie O'Sullivan and Paul Wallace. They'll sort ye out. We won't even charge ye and will throw Frankie Sheehan in for free ;)
 

FrenchFan

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Lads we can send you Eddie O'Sullivan and Paul Wallace. They'll sort ye out. We won't even charge ye and will throw Frankie Sheehan in for free ;)
I suppose when you watch your team a generation after another travel to Paris to have their head handed back to them its good to get the odd accidental win
even with the exceptional OGara ODriscoll generation you still only managed TWO wins in 14 years

i mean just exactly how much more lame coaching and B side-ish selections you guys need to even START reversing that record?
 

FrenchFan

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that much does seem very true...

However I disagree with what you're saying as a whole, although most of the separate things you say are true.
The FFR is accusing the clubs of things, and the clubs are accusing the FFR of things. In reality for a neutral, they're BOTH doing wrong to each other. But neither side will look at it this way and wants the entire cake, who ever wanted to share in this world of men, just look at Israel and the Palestinians as the most intense example.

They're both playing the ostrich game, it's an absolute cacophony from a logical perspective, and you can't work with someone if he doesn't want to work with you. You can force him though, but we're sitting back and watching what that's accomplishing - clubs are just ignoring the deals...

Of of the aspects of clubs - the main one in fact back in the day - is to train guys, make them into elite national products so they can go compete for their nation on the highest stage there is.
But now that the Top 14 has turned into an industry, and every league in the world (all sports included) either has been that way for long or is following suit - it's all about winning. And to win, injecting talent sure helps. And you said it yourself, even the ProD2 has a bunch of internationals now, because that reality has steamrolled all over the nation.

There are no two ways about it. What do you want, French Rugby ? Because you can't have both. Do you want success at the top at national test level, or do you want the Top 14 ? Because the truth is the Top 14 has become too big, too much. Just look at Toulouse, Clermont, Toulon, Montpellier, SF, Racing etc...they've become titans.

The Top 14 is so huge it's attracting more and more internationals (from Top Tier 1 circles) to drop their own league, abandon their country or hopes to play internationally themselves ever again for England, NZ, Australia, SA...etc...and come to France and compete there. The Bouclier de Brennus and H Cup have become a very relic in world Rugby right now. Wilkinson and Andrew Sheridan have said many times they didn't want to go back to play for England or the Lions Tour or wtvr because they wanted to focus full time on Toulon Rugby. On that Top 14 title.

It's become so big it's leaving no room for French national rugby. Just the natural laws of space management. It's eating up the XV de France.

Now I repeat the question:
what do you want, French Rugby: the current Top 14 or the XV de France and 6N Grand Slams and World Cup finals etc...? Coz you can't have both.
la réponse est dans ta boite aux lettres perso :)
 

Rumpi

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At last someone understands!!!!!!!!!! it will all change if Galthie ever gets in charge but that i doubt it as he is not a YES man
France could, no, should be in with a chance of winning the World Cup but for some inexplicable reason are standing behind another terrible manager, its amazing to watch.
 

Rumpi

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I suppose when you watch your team a generation after another travel to Paris to have their head handed back to them its good to get the odd accidental win
even with the exceptional OGara ODriscoll generation you still only managed TWO wins in 14 years

i mean just exactly how much more lame coaching and B side-ish selections you guys need to even START reversing that record?
So you agree that PSA is out of his depth? Think this is an irish side in decline but we might win another six nations if you guys stick with the current management.
 
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