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Heineken Cup Semi Final- Saracens v Clermont

TheSaffycen

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Saturday 26th April 2014, KO 15:40
Twickenham Stadium, Twickenham
Referee: Nigel Owens



As no one else has made them (looking at you Ewis <_< ) this is the Saracens vs Clermont teams will be added when available.

SARACENS TEAM 1.M Vunipola 2.Brits 3.Johnston 4.Borthwick (c) 5.Botha 6.Brown 7.Burger 8.Vunipola 9.De Kock 10.Farrell 11.Strettle 12.Barritt 13.Bosch 14.Ashton 15.Goode
16.George 17.Barrington 18.Stevens 19.Hargreaves 20.Wray 21.Wigglesworth 22.Streather 23.Wyles

CLERMONT TEAM 1.Domingo 2.Kayser 3.Zirakashvili 4.Cudmore 5.Hines 6.Bonnaire (c) 7.Chouly 8.Lee 9.Parra 10.James 11.Nalaga 12.Fofana 13.Stanley 14.Sivivatu 15.Byrne
16.Paulo 17.Debaty 18.Ric 19.Pierre 20.Vosloo 21.Lacrampe 22.Delany 23.Nakaitaci
 
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Strange that they can't seem to sell out a stadium when there are minimum prices in place! :p

Should be a good game though - will be interesting - if Sarries lose then it will confirm my theory (to myself if no-one else) that they are flat-track bullies.
 
- if Sarries lose then it will confirm my theory (to myself if no-one else) that they are flat-track bullies.
I don't know what you mean by this ?
 
They are set up to win a league - not playoffs.
They are a ruthless points accumulating machine.

The very thing that makes them so efficient during the regular season is the very thing that handicaps them in bigger games.

Let's pretend that a team's performance can be measured as a percentage. I.e. a game like the AB's vs Boks in Jo'burg last year was two teams playing close to 100% and a dead-rubber ****-fight between Worcester and Zebre would be closer to 20%.

Most teams performances will vary quite significantly in terms of range - Saints might be able to play 5 games - three of which will be 80%, one at 70% and another at 50%.
They will beat most teams comfortably at 80%, edge the same number at 70% and lose to most teams at 50%.
And example of that 50% game would be their loss against Sale - where Sale played well, and Saints looked tired and disorganised.
Let's say this range of performance applies to the top 6 in the premiership.
With their performances coming in waves, some teams like Tigers really take their time to grow into form... whereas Saints this year hit the ground running and then suffered a bit of a dip.

Sarries are exceptional in that they can play at that 80% for practically the entire season - from the first round to the last.
There isn't really a warming up period or a slowing down period - they are relentlessly hitting that 80%.
They may only drop below that 80% once or twice in a season.

This also applies within a game itself.

Sarries play at 80% from the first minute until the 80th.
Clermont do the exact opposite of this - they might spend the first 20mins at 60%. They'll maybe concede a hard earned try and a couple of penalties and probably earn one or two themselves.
For the next 20minutes they might step up the intensity to 70%... and so on.
They will almost certainly step up the intensity to a test level 90% for a 10-20 minute period where they will absolutely blow most teams away - after that they coast.

Most teams fall somewhere inbetween those two, in terms of acute periods of high intensity and consistency.

Sarries' consistency is also what kills them in big games - they don't have the ability to really get beyond that 80%.
And come the knockout stages of the Premiership and HEC other teams can - Saints vs Sarries at AP last year is a very good example of this.

They are set up perfectly on and off the pitch to win leagues - but aren't as well equipped as others to win knockout rugby.
Sarries aren't changing the way they do things either - but they are, year on year, bumping up that static 80% by one or two % a year.
So this might be the year they do it.
 
Oh right yeah I agree. We are always in 4th gear looking good against mid table teams, then the big boys come along and we are just too predictable and have no plan B. It happens too often and we need to expand our game, we have been scoring more though, we are semi final reaching specialist.
 
reaaaaaaally busy these days, I can't be blamed !! Trust me.

My English friend's comin over for this one. I just learned today this was in Twickers, fucck....what an amazing fate for the Saracens. First they make it to the elimination round without being a force in the pools, get a 14-man Ulster side they only barely beat, and now find themselves against Clermont at home in the semis !! They can't win the ***le, but they sure can make it to the final, who the fk expected that ?! Good for them.

I know Rougerie, Fritz Lee and Chouly are missing this one...honestly, three big losses, especially captain Aurélien Rougerie obviously...I have a very mixed feeling about this one...last year or at other stretches of this season I would've said Clermont with certainty despite the away game, but here...mmm...
 
My English friend's comin over for this one. I just learned today this was in Twickers, fucck....what an amazing fate for the Saracens
We got beaten in the same stadium; at the same stage of the competition last year. Same will probably happen this year but I will remain hopeful :rolleyes:
 
We got beaten in the same stadium; at the same stage of the competition last year. Same will probably happen this year but I will remain hopeful :rolleyes:

this year's Clermont ain't last year's Toulon man. In fact, no club right now is last year's Toulon.
 
They are set up to win a league - not playoffs.
They are a ruthless points accumulating machine.

The very thing that makes them so efficient during the regular season is the very thing that handicaps them in bigger games.

Let's pretend that a team's performance can be measured as a percentage. I.e. a game like the AB's vs Boks in Jo'burg last year was two teams playing close to 100% and a dead-rubber ****-fight between Worcester and Zebre would be closer to 20%.

Most teams performances will vary quite significantly in terms of range - Saints might be able to play 5 games - three of which will be 80%, one at 70% and another at 50%.
They will beat most teams comfortably at 80%, edge the same number at 70% and lose to most teams at 50%.
And example of that 50% game would be their loss against Sale - where Sale played well, and Saints looked tired and disorganised.
Let's say this range of performance applies to the top 6 in the premiership.
With their performances coming in waves, some teams like Tigers really take their time to grow into form... whereas Saints this year hit the ground running and then suffered a bit of a dip.

Sarries are exceptional in that they can play at that 80% for practically the entire season - from the first round to the last.
There isn't really a warming up period or a slowing down period - they are relentlessly hitting that 80%.
They may only drop below that 80% once or twice in a season.

This also applies within a game itself.

Sarries play at 80% from the first minute until the 80th.
Clermont do the exact opposite of this - they might spend the first 20mins at 60%. They'll maybe concede a hard earned try and a couple of penalties and probably earn one or two themselves.
For the next 20minutes they might step up the intensity to 70%... and so on.
They will almost certainly step up the intensity to a test level 90% for a 10-20 minute period where they will absolutely blow most teams away - after that they coast.

Most teams fall somewhere inbetween those two, in terms of acute periods of high intensity and consistency.

Sarries' consistency is also what kills them in big games - they don't have the ability to really get beyond that 80%.
And come the knockout stages of the Premiership and HEC other teams can - Saints vs Sarries at AP last year is a very good example of this.

They are set up perfectly on and off the pitch to win leagues - but aren't as well equipped as others to win knockout rugby.
Sarries aren't changing the way they do things either - but they are, year on year, bumping up that static 80% by one or two % a year.
So this might be the year they do it.

This makes a lot of sense surprisingly its an abstract concept but makes really makes a lot of sense. Good post.
 
this year's Clermont ain't last year's Toulon man. In fact, no club right now is last year's Toulon.

Last years Toulon? From memory weren't exactly setting the world on fire, much less so then this years Toulon. Clermont were favorites all season last year and IRC they were expected to blow Toulon away in the final only they choked.

Edit: ah **** sorry about the double post forgot I where I was.
 
Another interesing game, Clermont are unbeatable at home 76 consecutive games on the trot but this is London, could go either way but should be a fast open game, all France want another all French final but both Clermont and Toulon will have to play well to beat their opposition.
 
I cannot see ASM winning this one but one can only hope I am wrong.

To me, it will be interesting to see the crowd figures after last year's empty stadium and the fairly full stadium from all these cheap ticketed matches with the American razmatazz making a rugby occasion into a bit of a farce and a noisy one at that!!
 
Thought this was quite interesting/telling.

Head to Head
Saracens v Clermont
3 Played 3
0 Wins 3
3 Losses 0
0 Draws 0
2 Tries 8
1 Conversions 5
5 Penalties 6
0 Drop Goals 1
27 Points 71
 
It's going to be about 25k I think... hence my earlier post:

Strange that they can't seem to sell out a stadium when there are minimum prices in place! :p

BTW despite my earlier post I'm not suggesting that ASM are definitely going to win this - I think it's actually fairly open.
 
It's going to be about 25k I think... hence my earlier post:
Strange that they can't seem to sell out a stadium when there are minimum prices in place

It is because the ERC do all the marketing and the clubs have nothing to do with it. It's ridiculous really that a French team with one of the greatest fan bases in the world and it only just sells as many tickets as their home stadium. Even we managed to get 83,889 into Wembley a few weeks ago for a prem game against Quins, it is pathetic what they do with tickets and marketing.
 
It's going to be about 25k I think... hence my earlier post:



BTW despite my earlier post I'm not suggesting that ASM are definitely going to win this - I think it's actually fairly open.

Why is this????? cheap tickets two great teams and of course you guys in Blighty dont often see French teams performing live, easy access,80,000 capacity and you say about 25,000 hard to understand, It would be full if it was at the Aviva, the French semis are a sellout in Lille, even if everybody hates Sarries its the last ever H Cup semi where is this "I was there" syndrome!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Because club rugby is small fry in this country (particularly in London) - unless you peddle the tickets at ludicrous prices then you aren't going to sell out a club game for anything other than a grand final.
 
but just the common interest of people in and around, London, i have been to all the last few semis irrespective of who is playing, last seasons H Cup semi in Montpelleir i was in charge of the Munster changing room and tunnel. I know footieball takes everything but to not see a minimum of 50,000 + seems nearly heathen
 
That's just how it is... club rugby is practically an irrelevance to the wider public - particularly in a city that is spoilt for choice as far as sports and live entertainment goes.
The quarter-finals only had 1/8th the viewing figures of Sky's regular season live football game that weekend.

The 25k figure I stated isn't final... but I can't see it getting anywhere near 50k.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/saracens-argue-heineken-cup-should-3443523

There is a lot of untapped casual support for rugby - but PRL seems to make absolutely no attempt to advertise it.
The only free to air tv it gets is a short highlights show once a week on ITV4 and later replayed on ITV1 at 11pm.
As you say common interest should be there (and probably is, after all, people like going out) but club rugby has absolutely zero profile in the general consciousness of England.
 
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It is because the ERC do all the marketing and the clubs have nothing to do with it. It's ridiculous really that a French team with one of the greatest fan bases in the world and it only just sells as many tickets as their home stadium..

It will be interesting to see how many from that fan base make the effort and pay the price of getting themselves to London.....the French supporters are notoriously home birds and do not travel to away games through and innate lack of "adventure" or cost.

Even we managed to get 83,889 into Wembley a few weeks ago for a prem game against Quins, it is pathetic what they do with tickets and marketing.

Prices charged and entertainment other than the just rugby match itself were the reason for that figure!

I remember watching one of these "showcase" events, cannot remember which one, where Wembley or Twickers was filled with cheap tickets bought mainly for the entertainment where the atmosphere during the actual match was like being in a cemetery as the crowd obviously did not understand the game or support either team.......
 

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