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Heineken Cup Semi Final- Toulon v Munster

Going to the corner was probably the correct decision, they weren't, and probably wouldn't have been, given a sniff for the remainder of the game. The game was lost by trying to be a bit too cute off the kick offs and the scrum in the first half hour.

Exactly this. But still 100% proud of lads
 
Because in fairness mauling it over the line is just so creative.

No but when you have a 2 man overlap wide and you go for drop goal is what you consider positive. Munster mixed it. Leinster and Ulster mix it. Leicester Toulouse Montpellier Northampton and Clermont mix it
 
No but when you have a 2 man overlap wide and you go for drop goal is what you consider positive. Munster mixed it. Leinster and Ulster mix it. Leicester Toulouse Montpellier Northampton and Clermont mix it
No I don't consider going for the drop goal positive, I also don't consider kicking the corner to maul it each time positive, I consider keeping the ball in the forwards quite boring, but then again it is a very effective method of scoring tries. I find using backs in set moves and getting the ball out wide positive, scoring tries.
 
Jesus I'm going to have to cheer for Sarries. Toulon winning it again is enough to send me into a deep depression.
 
Er, no.
And anyways, why such a stupid remark ?


It wasn't a stupid remark! Who outside of Toulon fans wants the World XV to win another Heineken Cup?


ETA: FYI, the World XV

15. Delon Armitage (England)
14. Drew Mitchell (Australia)
13. Mathieu Bastareaud (France)
12. Matt Giteau (Australia)
11. Bryan Habana (South Africa)
10. Jonny Wilkinson (c) (England)
9. Sebastien Tillous-Borde (France)
1. Xavier Chiocci (France)
2. Craig Burden (South Africa)
3. Carl Hayman (New Zealand)
4. Danie Rossouw (South Africa)
5. Jocelino Suta (France)
6. Juan Smith (South Africa)
7. Juan Fernandez Lobbe (Argentina)
8. Steffon Armitage (England)
 
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No I don't consider going for the drop goal positive, I also don't consider kicking the corner to maul it each time positive, I consider keeping the ball in the forwards quite boring, but then again it is a very effective method of scoring tries. I find using backs in set moves and getting the ball out wide positive, scoring tries.

The teams I mentioned try both through forwards and backs not just 1way. But going for tries is positive compared to being in try scoring areas and not trying to get tries
 
1 thing I will say from today. Toulon are a bunch of mercenaries brought in with money but they are talented and had a collective fight today. They were united and played with heart and passion.
 
It wasn't a stupid remark! Who outside of Toulon fans wants the World XV to win another Heineken Cup?


ETA: FYI, the World XV

15. Delon Armitage (England)
14. Drew Mitchell (Australia)
13. Mathieu Bastareaud (France)
12. Matt Giteau (Australia)
11. Bryan Habana (South Africa)
10. Jonny Wilkinson (c) (England)
9. Sebastien Tillous-Borde (France)
1. Xavier Chiocci (France)
2. Craig Burden (South Africa)
3. Carl Hayman (New Zealand)
4. Danie Rossouw (South Africa)
5. Jocelino Suta (France)
6. Juan Smith (South Africa)
7. Juan Fernandez Lobbe (Argentina)
8. Steffon Armitage (England)


I didn't even realise it was that bad: Only three French players and only one of them home grown.
 
Night and day from the other semi final....It was as if all the atmosphere, tension and all around excitement(excpet for Saracens fans) from the other semi was bottled up pre-match and brought to this contest instead.

Just for the record on the Toulon bench.

16. Jean Charles Orioli (France)
17. Alexander Menini (France)
18. Martin Castrogiavanni (Italy)
19. Virgile Bruni (France)
20. David Smith (New Zealand)
21. Maxime Mermoz (France)
22. Michael Claassens (South Africa)
23. Konstantin Mikautadze (Georgia)
 
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I do, I enjoy watching them and like the players. They all seem to enjoy their rugby and look like they are having a great time. Who wouldn't want to be part of a team like that?
 
I do, I enjoy watching them and like the players. They all seem to enjoy their rugby and look like they are having a great time. Who wouldn't want to be part of a team like that?

Yep, as someone who follows North American sports like NHL, MLB and NBA with multiple nationalities on each team it dosen't really bother me the compositon of their side. If French fans want to ask questions about it due to their national team I have no problem with it but I can't see why everyone else gets so worked up.
 
all of France wants Toulon to win, obviously. Money buys fine internationals, that's how it is. But the coaches are all French, the owner who made this all possible is French, and Toulon have actually produced some fine players despite the oceans of foreigners and int'ls.
4 Frenchmen in the starting XV and 4 more off the bench, with 3 home-grown.

I totally understand ppl would hate Toulon, because they're excellent and because they've so many nationalities, but interestingly I was just watching an NBA game earlier, the San Antonio Spurs: they have two Frenchmen, an Italian, a Brazilian, an Aussie, an Argentinian, and even Tim Duncan is from the Virgin Islands (technically US, but...). The Spurs still are an NBA team, and an American team. They play an American style, are coached by an American, etc...
So because the Top 14 has evolved into such a juggernaut and industry, the number of French players doesn't matter anymore. They could've been less even, they're still a Top 14 side.
The criticism that goes along the lines that France are sinking because there are too many foreigners in the T14 and not enough home-grown players or French players per team, all that. Well it's true in part, but that's a French issue. It has absolutely nothing to do with this thread, we'll take care of our problems ourselves, thank you very much for your time and concern. When the xv de France lacks the enormous depth it currently posses, we'll really start talking about that.
And the other side of the criticism: that Toulon are an army of mercenaries. Well they obviously aren't. An army of mercenaries doesn't win the Heineken Cup twice in a row (sorry Sarries :p ), and they have some particularly good players like Lobbe or Habana (who's barely played at all this season) but guys like Wilko or the Armitages, Giteau, Hayman, Rossouw, David Smith, D.Mitchell or Juan Smith are guys who didn't necessarily have their place at test level for their respective nations that were well picked and brought to share a common goal, and well coached enough to produce the fine, fine blend of Rugby we've seen the past couple of years. Great chemistry, and huge dedication. Some beautiful tries too if you've watched some T14.

Toulon did start the likes of Tillous-Bordes, Chiocci, Suta and Burden, who are relative nobodies. And the bench had only one "star", Castrogiovanni, way past his prime himself.
There are lots of "soft spots" on that 23.

And they did beat the crap out of Leinster some time ago, and Leinster as I said then, will repeat it now, benefit from a huge advantage no other side in the world does and aren't exactly lacking stars/current international world class players.

Big win. Period. Munster came, had us all doubting for a while there, good game. Now they go back home.
I don't think anybody will get this here, but here goes:
"parce que Toulon" :p
 
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Yep, as someone who follows North American sports like NHL, MLB and NBA with multiple nationalities on each team it dosen't really bother me the compositon of their side. If French fans want to ask questions about it due to their national team I have no problem with it but I can't see why everyone else gets so worked up.


Completely different situation LG. North America truly have Franchise systems and they are totally transportable. Many of them have moved cities over the years

Oakland Raiders became Los Angeles Raiders in 1982, then went back to Oakland Raiders in 1995
Baltimore Colts became the Indianapolis Colts in 1984
St. Louis Cardinals became the Phoenix Cardinals in 1988 then changed their name to the Arizona Cardinals in 1994
Los Angeles Rams becaome the St. Louis Rams in 1995 (the orginall were the Cleveland Rams prior to 1946)
Houston Oilers moved to Memphis TN and became the Tennessee Oilers 1997 then moved to Nashville in 1998 and renamed themselves Tennessee ***ans in 1999

And that is just NFL and only in the last 30 or so years.

Can you imagine a team like Toulon suddenly deciding to base themselves in, say, Marseilles?
 
all of France wants Toulon to win, obviously. Money buys fine internationals, that's how it is. But the coaches are all French, the owner who made this all possible is French, and Toulon have actually produced some fine players despite the oceans of foreigners and int'ls.
4 Frenchmen in the starting XV and 4 more off the bench, with 3 home-grown.

I totally understand ppl would hate Toulon, because they're excellent and because they've so many nationalities, but interestingly I was just watching an NBA game earlier, the San Antonio Spurs: they have two Frenchmen, an Italian, a Brazilian, an Aussie, an Argentinian, and even Tim Duncan is from the Virgin Islands (technically US, but...). The Spurs still are an NBA team, and an American team. They play an American style, are coached by an American, etc...
So because the Top 14 has evolved into such a juggernaut and industry, the number of French players doesn't matter anymore. They could've been less even, they're still a Top 14 side.
The criticism that goes along the lines that France are sinking because there are too many foreigners in the T14 and not enough home-grown players or French players per team, all that. Well it's true in part, but that's a French issue. It has absolutely nothing to do with this thread, we'll take care of our problems ourselves, thank you very much for your time and concern. When the xv de France lacks the enormous depth it currently posses, we'll really start talking about that.
And the other side of the criticism: that Toulon are an army of mercenaries. Well they obviously aren't. An army of mercenaries doesn't win the Heineken Cup twice in a row (sorry Sarries :p ), and they have some particularly good players like Lobbe or Habana (who's barely played at all this season) but guys like Wilko or the Armitages, Giteau, Hayman, Rossouw, David Smith, D.Mitchell or Juan Smith are guys who didn't necessarily have their place at test level for their respective nations that were well picked and brought to share a common goal, and well coached enough to produce the fine, fine blend of Rugby we've seen the past couple of years. Great chemistry, and huge dedication. Some beautiful tries too if you've watched some T14.

Toulon did start the likes of Tillous-Bordes, Chiocci, Suta and Burden, who are relative nobodies. And the bench had only one "star", Castrogiovanni, way past his prime himself.
There are lots of "soft spots" on that 23.

And they did beat the crap out of Leinster some time ago, and Leinster as I said then, will repeat it now, benefit from a huge advantage no other side in the world does and aren't exactly lacking stars/current international world class players.

Big win. Period. Munster came, had us all doubting for a while there, good game. Now they go back home.
I don't think anybody will get this here, but here goes:
"parce que Toulon" :p

So, let me ask you. If Clermont had won the other semi-final, giving us an all-French final, who would the neutral French fans support?
 
Can't blame guys for being positive. At end I agreed they should go for corner. All these money teams seem to buy all they want but have no creativity
This isn't accurate, Toulon played the ball a lot even getting in trouble in their 22 for overplaying it, good offloading and passing from them in attack. Both defences were very good, as you'd expect in finals rugby. It's not really the place for open running rugby, ask the All Blacks and Clermont Auvergne.

I didn't even realise it was that bad: Only three French players and only one of them home grown.

The Armitage brothers can't play for France, but they are actually part French too having grown up and learned their rugby there.
 
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