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European Champions & Challenge Cup
Heineken Cup Semi Final- Toulon v Munster
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<blockquote data-quote="Big Ewis" data-source="post: 638761" data-attributes="member: 57076"><p>all of France wants Toulon to win, obviously. Money buys fine internationals, that's how it is. But the coaches are all French, the owner who made this all possible is French, and Toulon have actually produced some fine players despite the oceans of foreigners and int'ls.</p><p>4 Frenchmen in the starting XV and 4 more off the bench, with 3 home-grown.</p><p></p><p>I totally understand ppl would hate Toulon, because they're excellent and because they've so many nationalities, but interestingly I was just watching an NBA game earlier, the San Antonio Spurs: they have two Frenchmen, an Italian, a Brazilian, an Aussie, an Argentinian, and even Tim Duncan is from the Virgin Islands (technically US, but...). The Spurs still are an NBA team, and an American team. They play an American style, are coached by an American, etc...</p><p>So because the Top 14 has evolved into such a juggernaut and industry, the number of French players doesn't matter anymore. They could've been less even, they're still a Top 14 side.</p><p>The criticism that goes along the lines that France are sinking because there are too many foreigners in the T14 and not enough home-grown players or French players per team, all that. Well it's true in part, but that's a French issue. It has absolutely nothing to do with this thread, we'll take care of our problems ourselves, thank you very much for your time and concern. When the xv de France lacks the enormous depth it currently posses, we'll really start talking about that.</p><p>And the other side of the criticism: that Toulon are an army of mercenaries. Well they obviously aren't. An army of mercenaries doesn't win the Heineken Cup twice in a row (sorry Sarries <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite7" alt=":p" title="Stick Out Tongue :p" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":p" /> ), and they have some particularly good players like Lobbe or Habana (who's barely played at all this season) but guys like Wilko or the Armitages, Giteau, Hayman, Rossouw, David Smith, D.Mitchell or Juan Smith are guys who didn't necessarily have their place at test level for their respective nations that were well picked and brought to share a common goal, and well coached enough to produce the fine, fine blend of Rugby we've seen the past couple of years. Great chemistry, and huge dedication. Some beautiful tries too if you've watched some T14.</p><p></p><p>Toulon did start the likes of Tillous-Bordes, Chiocci, Suta and Burden, who are relative nobodies. And the bench had only one "star", Castrogiovanni, way past his prime himself.</p><p>There are lots of "soft spots" on that 23.</p><p></p><p>And they did beat the crap out of Leinster some time ago, and Leinster as I said then, will repeat it now, benefit from a huge advantage no other side in the world does and aren't exactly lacking stars/current international world class players.</p><p></p><p>Big win. Period. Munster came, had us all doubting for a while there, good game. Now they go back home.</p><p>I don't think anybody will get this here, but here goes:</p><p>"parce que Toulon" <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite7" alt=":p" title="Stick Out Tongue :p" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":p" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Big Ewis, post: 638761, member: 57076"] all of France wants Toulon to win, obviously. Money buys fine internationals, that's how it is. But the coaches are all French, the owner who made this all possible is French, and Toulon have actually produced some fine players despite the oceans of foreigners and int'ls. 4 Frenchmen in the starting XV and 4 more off the bench, with 3 home-grown. I totally understand ppl would hate Toulon, because they're excellent and because they've so many nationalities, but interestingly I was just watching an NBA game earlier, the San Antonio Spurs: they have two Frenchmen, an Italian, a Brazilian, an Aussie, an Argentinian, and even Tim Duncan is from the Virgin Islands (technically US, but...). The Spurs still are an NBA team, and an American team. They play an American style, are coached by an American, etc... So because the Top 14 has evolved into such a juggernaut and industry, the number of French players doesn't matter anymore. They could've been less even, they're still a Top 14 side. The criticism that goes along the lines that France are sinking because there are too many foreigners in the T14 and not enough home-grown players or French players per team, all that. Well it's true in part, but that's a French issue. It has absolutely nothing to do with this thread, we'll take care of our problems ourselves, thank you very much for your time and concern. When the xv de France lacks the enormous depth it currently posses, we'll really start talking about that. And the other side of the criticism: that Toulon are an army of mercenaries. Well they obviously aren't. An army of mercenaries doesn't win the Heineken Cup twice in a row (sorry Sarries :p ), and they have some particularly good players like Lobbe or Habana (who's barely played at all this season) but guys like Wilko or the Armitages, Giteau, Hayman, Rossouw, David Smith, D.Mitchell or Juan Smith are guys who didn't necessarily have their place at test level for their respective nations that were well picked and brought to share a common goal, and well coached enough to produce the fine, fine blend of Rugby we've seen the past couple of years. Great chemistry, and huge dedication. Some beautiful tries too if you've watched some T14. Toulon did start the likes of Tillous-Bordes, Chiocci, Suta and Burden, who are relative nobodies. And the bench had only one "star", Castrogiovanni, way past his prime himself. There are lots of "soft spots" on that 23. And they did beat the crap out of Leinster some time ago, and Leinster as I said then, will repeat it now, benefit from a huge advantage no other side in the world does and aren't exactly lacking stars/current international world class players. Big win. Period. Munster came, had us all doubting for a while there, good game. Now they go back home. I don't think anybody will get this here, but here goes: "parce que Toulon" :p [/QUOTE]
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