Heineken Cup talks "have now ended"

Discussion in 'European Champions & Challenge Cup' started by ratsapprentice, Sep 10, 2013.

  1. munstermuffin

    munstermuffin Hall of Fame

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    They've already agreed to stay on in Pro12
     
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  3. stus768

    stus768 Bench Player

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    Surely the competition has to happen as the top two supposedly qualify for the 2nd Tier tournament. Also surely they have to travel atm anyway to away games in the Challenge Cup? I think this 3rd Tier tournament gives more relevant competition to lower teams and, as long as there is the possibility of going up, something to aim for.

    One question would be what happens year on year? Do the same teams go down the next year to make room for the winners of this years?
     
  4. TRF_Peat

    TRF_Peat Super Moderator

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    Believe travel costs are generally covered by the competition/sponsors involved. I hope so in this case, it would be very illogical if they weren't.

    I have to say, I am not pleased that Romanian/Spanish teams have been cut from the second tier of European rugby, but it was inevitable from the moment they announced their intent to cut the top two competitions down to 20. I hope that this new organisation backs and funds the third tier strongly, they have to if they're to keep promises about strengthening it, but am not full of optimism.
     
  5. Croket66

    Croket66 Bench Player

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    Anyway, if the third competition put in place, Krasny Yar have big chances to take one of the 2 spot for the "Amlin Cup"
    Krasny Yar is based in Krasnoyarsk, Siberia.
    7000 km from London or Paris
    8 hours jetlag between Dublin/London and Krasnoyarsk
    Daily mean in january : -15°C

    However, the team is full pro, with a higher budget than Edinburgh or Zebre.
    4 NZ are playing for the team, 3 of them played in Super Rugby previously (the fourth played in ITM Cup)
    Many russian international are also playing for KY, including former London Wasps backrower Viktor Gresev (2 times MOTM during 2011 RWC) and former Nothampton Saints winger Vasily Artemyev. And some of the best players from neighboring nations (former Bordeaux lock Karolis Navickas from Lituania or moldovan n8 Oleg Prepelita who was named best player of the russian league last year)

    Do you think western teams for the 3 big leagues could go to Krasnoyarsk? I doubt unfortunately
     
  6. Pockets

    Pockets Academy Player

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    The competition "has to happen"? Well, to some extent. If it's an 8 team straight knockout, where three teams can't afford to show up and two of the others go out by 50-point margins? The Romanians can afford it sure, but that doesn't mean everyone could (just look at the Spanish pulling out of the Challenge Cup) and the kind of trips you would have to make are expensive; you can't just get a £30 easyjet flight to Tblisi.

    The relevant competition thing isn't quite right too - the non-6N countries with pro leagues can offer enough quality to be part of the second tier. Look at how Bucharest are doing in the Amlin Cup at the minute; they're better than the Italians. A third-tier competition would be the pro teams from Romania/Georgia/Russia steamrollering amateurs from ENC 1A/1B, I don't see how that sort of tournament will ever be financially viable without significant external backing.

    I don't get your question about the teams, though?
     
  7. Pockets

    Pockets Academy Player

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    I expect they'll insist on all the winter games being played somewhere else. Looking at the fixtures this year they were October, December and January for the groups, I guess they'll play at home during the 2 October weekends, then the remaining home fixtures in December and January will have to be played somewhere warmer.
     
  8. stus768

    stus768 Bench Player

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    The way i understand it the top two teams from the 3rd tier go up to the second so the tournament has to happen to make up the correct numbers in the 2nd tier. If they can't afford to travel in this tournament y would they be able to in another?? Better tournament would mean more exposure and more sponsorship tho.

    Bucharest have beaten one second tier Italian team. That makes them good now??? Better to play in a tournament where u have a chance of winning something.

    I think the answer to my question about teams is that there would be a play off between the winners of the 3rd tier and lowest ranked in the 2nd tier to decide who plays in it next season.
     
  9. dragos03

    dragos03 First XV

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    Bucharest Wolves have beaten French clubs several times in the Amlin Challenge Cup, including Toulon. They have not beaten "one Italian team", but have actually beaten every Italian team in the past few years, usually with bonus point wins both home and away.

    This season, Bucharest Wolves have only lost by one point at home against Newcastle Falcons (it took a last minute penalty for the Falcons to escape with a win) and lost against Brive by only 5 points. They are a competitive team, who can stay close or win games vs Tier 1 clubs. It's the Italians who should be relegated to a lower European competition to give them a chance to win something, not us. The Italian clubs have been a disgrace in both the Heineken Cup and the Amlin Challenge Cup (they actually lost two out of two against an amateur Spanish team last season), yet it's the best non-Tier 1 team in European competitions that's being relegated.

    Also, Bucharest Wolves is not a real club but a scratch development team where youngsters and new tactics are tested. The actual champion club of Romania would be stronger.

    I also agree with Croket66, the Western clubs will never agree to play in Siberia. I strongly doubt they will pay the travel costs for this fictional third tier tournament either (the whole reform is about greed, to get more money for the top clubs, not to give away some to pay for trips from Portugal to Georgia).
     
  10. flying tiger

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    An announcement over the future of European rugby is expected in the next couple of days, according to reports on the BBC.

    The six unions that play in the Heineken Cup met in Dublin on Tuesday to thrash out the finer details of a new re-jigged tournament ahead of next season, a compromise that looks set to end two years of discussion over the future of the domestic game in Europe.

    Reports at the weekend suggest the new tournament will consist of 20 teams with six qualifying from the Top 14 and the Aviva Premiership alongside seven from the RaboDirect PRO12 with the last place going to the winner of a play-off between the seventh-placed side in the French league and the English top flight.

    Underneath the top-tier tournament will be a second-tier competition made up of the other teams from the three leagues. There will also be a third-tier for clubs from countries including Georgia, Romania, Russia, Spain, Portugal and Belgium, according to the Telegraph.

    The broadcasting side of the new competition also appears to be nearing compromise with BT Sport and Sky Sports set to share the television rights of the new tournament. While the current administrative board in charge of the Heineken Cup, European Rugby Cup Ltd, is based in Dublin, the new tournament will be run by a company in Switzerland.


    Read more at http://www.espnscrum.com/heineken-cup-2013-14/rugby/story/219821.html#ZDzhAGsa1jWYTZHQ.99
     
  11. Conal

    Conal First XV

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    well that seems like a bitch slap to smaller nations .....
     
  12. Thingimubob

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    Was trying to work out the qualifying teams from the Pro 12 for next year if this deal goes through. With 1 team from each country guaranteed a spot, with 7 in total, that would mean if the table stays as it is now, we'd see Leinster, Munster, Ulster, Ospreys, Glasgow and Scarlets qualifying as the top 6, but would that mean that 7th place Connacht lose out to 12th placed Zebre (assuming they stay in the Pro 12 and don't follow Treviso back to the Italian League)?
     
  13. Amiga500

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    To answer your first question, yes, it would mean Connacht would lose out to the top Italian team.

    To correct an error; Treviso are staying in the Pro12.
     
  14. TRF_SelimNiai

    TRF_SelimNiai 'Ark at ee mun!

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    http://www.rfu.com/news/2014/march/...e_statement?utm_source=Social&utm_medium=2014

     
  15. jonny24

    jonny24 Academy Player

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    Well that's good news. I was kind of hoping they'd take the opportunity to shift the whole thing to the end of the season instead on continuing all piece meal, but oh well.
     
  16. snoopy snoopy dog dog

    snoopy snoopy dog dog First XV

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    I have my doubts as to whether this is good for the European game as a whole. All teams get more money however if the purchasing power of the French and English clubs increases by more than clubs from other nations, will we see a greater outflowing of talent from Wales, Scotland, Ireland and Italy to the Premiership and Top 14 than ever before? It'll also prove more expensive for fans who now need to splash out for an additional subscription to BT to see all the games - this is already the case in England with the Premiership and Heineken Cup on separate broadcasters. I hope my doubts are misplaced and want the new EPCR to work well for all.

    However the Unions want to spin this, it's unmistakably a landslide victory for PRL and LNR.
     
  17. Groundhog

    Groundhog #1 Cuck

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    **** that for a laugh. I'll just get mammy to drop the Sky subscription and go to the pub. BT can suck my 16 inch dick.
    This isn't good for us at all in the Rabo. We were already on the backfoot in terms of cash, and although the top few will be ok, the lower league sides can't hope to remain competitive. I know the same would have applied in England previously but while most mid to lower club sides in England and France are quite wealthy and financially secure, the Rabo Teams are not. This can only be a bad thing for us boys. I'm especially worried for Connacht.
     
  18. psychic duck

    psychic duck International

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    The Rabo needs to try and make serious strides on the relatively small TV deal they have now. At least the Welsh regions are in a position now that they cannot be threatened with the WRU's alternative regions anymore.
     
  19. TRF Mr Fish

    TRF Mr Fish Your Piscine Overlord

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    So apart from the qualifying, the structure of the competition itself stays exactly the same?
     
  20. munstermuffin

    munstermuffin Hall of Fame

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    Rabo have Sky next year so money will be there.
    It's 4 year deal now though and it'll be 4 years of testing the waters a bit. Will be interesting to see how it works out
     
  21. TRF_Peat

    TRF_Peat Super Moderator

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    Yup. Sky involvement will probably be a good thing. I don't know when Pro 12 TV rights next go up, but there is potential for progress to be made there, particularly with the Irish.

    This may not be the greatest deal ever but it's better than the presumed alternative of nothing.
     
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