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European Champions & Challenge Cup
Heineken Cup talks "have now ended"
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<blockquote data-quote="j&#039;nuh" data-source="post: 591787" data-attributes="member: 55446"><p>If I could sum up how the Pro12 teams have acted in this whole affair in one image:</p><p></p><p><img src="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-CtZvXbIPtQ0/TkM2JjBaS4I/AAAAAAAAEew/0HUVfpUL5rY/s400/Homer+cereal+fire.jpg" alt="" class="fr-fic fr-dii fr-draggable " style="" /></p><p></p><p>They should have <strong>leapt</strong> at the demands from the English and French. They should have rolled over at the first opportunity and retained some kind of control over the situation. It was such an easy opportunity to keep European rugby alive and stay involved in the tournament.</p><p></p><p>The demands were to reduce the size of the tournament to 20 teams, 6 from each league, plus reward-based extras. Not only was this fair, but this also gave an extra dimension of meaning to the Pro12, as mid-table teams would now have to go for broke to be included in the premier European tournament. It could have increased a little more interest in the league. Crucially, it allowed teams like Leinster, Munster, Glasgow, Ospreys, Ulster, Cardiff etc., the top Pro12 teams, to stay normally involved in the tournament, and allowed the Pro12 some kind of power over the arrangement. The regions would have had a voice in Europe.</p><p></p><p><strong>They went for broke in order to keep the likes of Edinburgh and Zebre in the tournament</strong>, and in doing so may have just gone and screwed over the whole regional set up in Wales and Ireland. (Scotland was already screwed over.)</p><p></p><p>How in gods name are the Welsh regions going to be able to afford to keep their stars without the attraction or money or stability of HC rugby? The talent drain so far will just be a drip-dropping of a loose tap compared to the gushing river flow that may soon ensue. Is the Pro12 going to be a satisfactory enough tournament to appease Leinster fans? Munster fans? <em>Any</em> fans?</p><p></p><p>And in their actions, they've left themselves completely at the mercy of the English and French now. Rather than agreeing to a situation where the top teams simply walk into Europe by doing well in the Pro12, they have now become invitational peripherals to the tournament. The Welsh regions in particular could be scrutinised for what they bring to the tournament financially. If they don't pull fans and sponsorship deals, then they may be left out the tournament completely, even if they were to come top of the Pro12. Even the mere speculation of them being left out of the tournament could mean further to the talent drain. Players want the security of top-flight rugby, and I don't see how the Pro12 teams, other than the likes of Leinster, who will not be left out of the new tournament if they ask to be included, can afford that to the players.</p><p></p><p>For the top teams in the Pro12, being left out of Europe is not an option. They will have to cave in now. But if they'd have caved in earlier, then they'd have gotten a lot more out of the situation.</p><p></p><p>As someone who cares about the game in Wales, rather than someone who wants to gloat, I think that this has been a shameful display.</p><p></p><p>I can certainly see a situation where it's English and French clubs plus Leinster and Munster. Or it may expand to include Ospreys and Ulster. Or maybe the French/English will show a bit of mercy and include a full 6, as the original plans intended. The point is that the Pro12 teams don't have any control over this.</p><p></p><p>EDIT: can an English-French cup work? ABSOLUTELY. Top 8 from each league with 4 pools of 4 teams. 2 English, 2 French in each pool. Perhaps even the rule that each pool must include 1 top 4 English and 1 top 4 French team. 16 teams, top 2 from each pool go through, quarters, semis, finals. </p><p></p><p>Example pools (looks very exciting to me, some deadly pools and massive ties there):</p><p></p><p>Pool 1:</p><p>Leicester</p><p>Wasps</p><p>Toulouse</p><p>Montpellier</p><p></p><p>Pool 2:</p><p>Saracens</p><p>Bath</p><p>Castres</p><p>Racing Metro</p><p></p><p>Pool 3:</p><p>Northampton</p><p>Exeter</p><p>Clermont</p><p>Bayonne</p><p></p><p>Pool 4:</p><p>Harlequins</p><p>Gloucester</p><p>Toulon</p><p>Perpignan</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="j'nuh, post: 591787, member: 55446"] If I could sum up how the Pro12 teams have acted in this whole affair in one image: [IMG]http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-CtZvXbIPtQ0/TkM2JjBaS4I/AAAAAAAAEew/0HUVfpUL5rY/s400/Homer+cereal+fire.jpg[/IMG] They should have [B]leapt[/B] at the demands from the English and French. They should have rolled over at the first opportunity and retained some kind of control over the situation. It was such an easy opportunity to keep European rugby alive and stay involved in the tournament. The demands were to reduce the size of the tournament to 20 teams, 6 from each league, plus reward-based extras. Not only was this fair, but this also gave an extra dimension of meaning to the Pro12, as mid-table teams would now have to go for broke to be included in the premier European tournament. It could have increased a little more interest in the league. Crucially, it allowed teams like Leinster, Munster, Glasgow, Ospreys, Ulster, Cardiff etc., the top Pro12 teams, to stay normally involved in the tournament, and allowed the Pro12 some kind of power over the arrangement. The regions would have had a voice in Europe. [B]They went for broke in order to keep the likes of Edinburgh and Zebre in the tournament[/B], and in doing so may have just gone and screwed over the whole regional set up in Wales and Ireland. (Scotland was already screwed over.) How in gods name are the Welsh regions going to be able to afford to keep their stars without the attraction or money or stability of HC rugby? The talent drain so far will just be a drip-dropping of a loose tap compared to the gushing river flow that may soon ensue. Is the Pro12 going to be a satisfactory enough tournament to appease Leinster fans? Munster fans? [I]Any[/I] fans? And in their actions, they've left themselves completely at the mercy of the English and French now. Rather than agreeing to a situation where the top teams simply walk into Europe by doing well in the Pro12, they have now become invitational peripherals to the tournament. The Welsh regions in particular could be scrutinised for what they bring to the tournament financially. If they don't pull fans and sponsorship deals, then they may be left out the tournament completely, even if they were to come top of the Pro12. Even the mere speculation of them being left out of the tournament could mean further to the talent drain. Players want the security of top-flight rugby, and I don't see how the Pro12 teams, other than the likes of Leinster, who will not be left out of the new tournament if they ask to be included, can afford that to the players. For the top teams in the Pro12, being left out of Europe is not an option. They will have to cave in now. But if they'd have caved in earlier, then they'd have gotten a lot more out of the situation. As someone who cares about the game in Wales, rather than someone who wants to gloat, I think that this has been a shameful display. I can certainly see a situation where it's English and French clubs plus Leinster and Munster. Or it may expand to include Ospreys and Ulster. Or maybe the French/English will show a bit of mercy and include a full 6, as the original plans intended. The point is that the Pro12 teams don't have any control over this. EDIT: can an English-French cup work? ABSOLUTELY. Top 8 from each league with 4 pools of 4 teams. 2 English, 2 French in each pool. Perhaps even the rule that each pool must include 1 top 4 English and 1 top 4 French team. 16 teams, top 2 from each pool go through, quarters, semis, finals. Example pools (looks very exciting to me, some deadly pools and massive ties there): Pool 1: Leicester Wasps Toulouse Montpellier Pool 2: Saracens Bath Castres Racing Metro Pool 3: Northampton Exeter Clermont Bayonne Pool 4: Harlequins Gloucester Toulon Perpignan [/QUOTE]
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Heineken Cup talks "have now ended"
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