i need help. Half back on defence

[mania]

i need clarification. any referees here please?
my sons playing halfback this year and has had 3 games .
in the weekend he tackled the opposing half back at the scrum and got called offside. opposing HB picked up the ball took half a step and my boy nailed him.
i thought at scrum time the ball was the offside line and as long as he stayed behind that "line" he could hassle the 8 and HB to his hearts content as long as he stayed behind the "line".

 

[Kiwiwomble]

i thought once the HB had made a step he'd be fair game....wheres @smartcooky when you need him

 

[mania]

i thought once the HB had made a step he'd be fair game....wheres @smartcooky when you need him

thats what i thought.
their HB fed the ball, he retreated to his #8 and my boy followed but stayed behind the line of the ball. when the HB grabbed it he stood up and went to take a step when my boy sacked him. just the fact the HB stood up with the ball was more than enough time to say it was out of the scrum but the ref, who was very good btw, said no you were already offside

 

[Umaga's Witness]

As

thats what i thought.
their HB fed the ball, he retreated to his #8 and my boy followed but stayed behind the line of the ball. when the HB grabbed it he stood up and went to take a step when my boy sacked him. just the fact the HB stood up with the ball was more than enough time to say it was out of the scrum but the ref, who was very good btw, said no you were already offside

As long as he isn't standing in the space between the flanker and the number 8, he must just be behind the ball. Then when the ball is out it's game on.

 

[TRF_heineken]

From WR site:

1. OFFSIDE AT A SCRUM
   
   
   
2. Players remain onside for the duration of the scrum.
3. Prior to the start of play in the scrum, the scrum-half of the team not throwing in the ball stands:
   1. On that team's side of the middle line next to the opposing scrum-half, or
   2. At least five metres behind the hindmost foot of their team's last player in the scrum and remains there until the completion of the scrum.
4. 
5. Once play in the scrum begins, the scrum-half of the team in possession has at least one foot level with or behind the ball.
6. Once play in the scrum begins, the scrum-half of the team not in possession:
   1. Takes up a position with both feet behind the ball and close to the scrum but not in the space between the flanker and the number eight or
   2. Permanently retires to a point on the offside line either at that team's hindmost foot, or
   3. Permanently retires at least five metres behind the hindmost foot.
7. 
8. All players not participating at the scrum remain at least five metres behind the hindmost foot of their team.
9. When the hindmost foot of a team is in in-goal or within five metres of that team's goal line, the offside line for that team's non-participants is the goal line.
10. Sanction: Penalty.
11. As soon as the scrum ends, offside lines no longer apply.
12. 
    
    Scrum offside

 

[mania]

From WR site:

1. OFFSIDE AT A SCRUM
   
   
   
2. Players remain onside for the duration of the scrum.
3. Prior to the start of play in the scrum, the scrum-half of the team not throwing in the ball stands:
   1. On that team's side of the middle line next to the opposing scrum-half, or
   2. At least five metres behind the hindmost foot of their team's last player in the scrum and remains there until the completion of the scrum.
4. 
5. Once play in the scrum begins, the scrum-half of the team in possession has at least one foot level with or behind the ball.
6. Once play in the scrum begins, the scrum-half of the team not in possession:
   1. Takes up a position with both feet behind the ball and close to the scrum but not in the space between the flanker and the number eight or
   2. Permanently retires to a point on the offside line either at that team's hindmost foot, or
   3. Permanently retires at least five metres behind the hindmost foot.
7. 
8. All players not participating at the scrum remain at least five metres behind the hindmost foot of their team.
9. When the hindmost foot of a team is in in-goal or within five metres of that team's goal line, the offside line for that team's non-participants is the goal line.
10. Sanction: Penalty.
11. As soon as the scrum ends, offside lines no longer apply.
12. 
    
    Scrum offside

thanks

 

[TheRugbyRef]

Not sure about NZ, but in the UK there are different regulations on this for each age group up to adult.
Some say you cant move past the centre line of the scrum, some say the 9 must be allowed to pass the ball away from the base of the scrum.

 

[Which Tyler]

My understanding is that the ball hasn't technically left the scrum just by the SH picking up the ball - SH needs to either pass or step for that to be the case.
If your lad hit him as he's about to step - then that's early.
If it's the #8 picking up, I think you're good to go.
It's the sort of thing you'll usually get away with, and certainly be coached to do; but still technically regarded as early.

Of course, there's also a good chance that he strayed offside; or that your interpretation of the event is different from the ref's

 

[TheRugbyRef]

Not sure about NZ, but in the UK there are different regulations on this for each age group up to adult.
Some say you cant move past the centre line of the scrum, some say the 9 must be allowed to pass the ball away from the base of the scrum.

So I found this for U8 to U11 rugby in NZ. If your son is U11 or below then he would have been offside for advancing past the centre mark of the scrum before the ball was played.

SCRUM

• The side throwing the ball in to the scrum wins the ball, i.e. no contest and no pushing.
• The opposing team cannot advance until the halfback has played the ball.
• The opposing halfback must not advance past the middle line i.e. tunnel.

This is the U12/13 laws. Again the 9 has to stay at the centre line of the scrum.

Scrum

1. The opposing team cannot advance until the halfback has run or played the ball. Note: A number 8 can also pick up the ball.
2. The opposing halfback must not advance past the middle line i.e. tunnel.
3. Under 11 only - The side throwing the ball in to the scrum wins the ball, i.e. no contest and no pushing.
4. There is an offside line five metres behind the hindmost feet of the scrum.

 

[mania]

So I found this for U8 to U11 rugby in NZ. If your son is U11 or below then he would have been offside for advancing past the centre mark of the scrum before the ball was played.

SCRUM

• The side throwing the ball in to the scrum wins the ball, i.e. no contest and no pushing.
• The opposing team cannot advance until the halfback has played the ball.
• The opposing halfback must not advance past the middle line i.e. tunnel.

This is the U12/13 laws. Again the 9 has to stay at the centre line of the scrum.

Scrum

1. The opposing team cannot advance until the halfback has run or played the ball. Note: A number 8 can also pick up the ball.
2. The opposing halfback must not advance past the middle line i.e. tunnel.
3. Under 11 only - The side throwing the ball in to the scrum wins the ball, i.e. no contest and no pushing.
4. There is an offside line five metres behind the hindmost feet of the scrum.

thanks heaps TheRugbyRef, but he's playing under65's which would be the equivalent of the u13's but weight restricted

 

[mania]

My understanding is that the ball hasn't technically left the scrum just by the SH picking up the ball - SH needs to either pass or step for that to be the case.
If your lad hit him as he's about to step - then that's early.
If it's the #8 picking up, I think you're good to go.
It's the sort of thing you'll usually get away with, and certainly be coached to do; but still technically regarded as early.

Of course, there's also a good chance that he strayed offside; or that your interpretation of the event is different from the ref's

yeah i think thats it. the opposing HB had only taken a half step when he got nailed. either that or my boys hands or head were over the offside line. this ref was very good and i have faith that his calling was fair and on to it, as far as what he could see.

 

[mania]

Not sure about NZ, but in the UK there are different regulations on this for each age group up to adult.
Some say you cant move past the centre line of the scrum, some say the 9 must be allowed to pass the ball away from the base of the scrum.

this is the first year that everything goes. up until now there have been restrictions

 

[mania]

big thank you for everyones help and advice.
totally appreciate this community, even when we're arguing