If You Were a National Coach...

[mackka]

Ok, based on the Super 14 performances so far, who would you pick for the Australian, New Zealand and South African national sides? I know it's early days still but I think there have definitely been some standout players.
For me...

Australia
1. Nic Henderson
2. Stephen Moore
3. Rodney Blake
4. Nathan Sharpe
5. Dan Vickerman
6. Rocky Elsom
7. George Smith
8. Stephen Hoiles
9. Patrick Phibbs
10. Matt Giteau
11. Mark Gerrard
12. Scott Staniforth
13. Ryan Cross
14. Drew Mitchell
15. Cameron Shepherd
16. Salesi Ma'afu
17. Tatafu Polota-Nau
18. Mark Chisolm
19. Phil Waugh
20. Wycliff Palu
21. Kurtley Beale
22. Chris Latham

New Zealand
1. Tony Woodcock
2. Kevin Mealamu
3. Greg Somerville
4. Troy Flavell
5. Ali Williams
6. Nick Williams
7. Richie McCaw
8. Rodney So'oialo
9. Piri Weepu
10. Dan Carter
11. Joe Rokocoko
12. Stephen Brett
13. Mils Muliaina
14. Ma'a Nonu
15. Isa Nacewa
16. Jamie Mackintosh
17. Andrew Hore
18. Kurtis Haiu
19. Lia Messam
20. Andy Ellis
21. Nick Evans
22. Isaia Toeava

South Africa
1. Jannie du Plessis
2. Bismarck du Plessis
3. BJ Botha
4. Bakkies Botha
5. Johann Muller
6. Schalk Burger
7. Juan Smith
8. Ryan Kankowski
9. Fourie Du Preez
10. Earl Rose
11. JP Pietersen
12. Jean De Villiers
13. JP Nel
14. Bryan Habana
15. Zane Kirchner
16. Gurthro Steenkamp
17. Tiaan Liebenberg
18. Johann Ackermann
19. Danie Rossouw
20. AJ Venter
21. Ruan Pienaar
22. Francois Steyn

 

[Steve-o]

There is just so much wrong with that Bok team.

Earl Rose at flyhalf?! What about the only in form flyhalf in SA, Potgieter?

JP 'I got no skills or decent attack running lines' Nel at outside centre?!

Bakkies Botha hasn't even played a match yet, so that team can't be based on form.

Thank god you're not a national coach!

I'm surprised you didn't just add Michalak for shits and giggles

 

[BLR]

Not a fan of your Aussie team, there are a few glaringly obvious ones.

Rodney Blake has shown himself to really not be up to it this season.

Vickerman is leaving to Europe.

Phibbs played one good game, I don't see how that would give him a Wallabies berth.

Stephen Moore is pretty rubbish, haven't really seen him do anything....

Gerrard really doesn't do much in test level, I don't think he should be there...

I think your backline is too Force centric, keep in mind they are the second lowest scoring team in the comp...

I will leave the bench, few people there who I don't think should be int he squad at all...

 

[candybum]

and Nacewa doesn't qualify for the ABs unless they changed that rule lol

 

[mackka]

Haha probably all fair comments....still, all three are teams I'd love to see on the field. You're meant to be leaving your own suggestions, not tearing mine to pieces dammit.

 

[ALLBLACKS]

Form 15 for NZ so Far

1.Woodcock
2.Mealamu
3.John Afoa
4.Troy Favell
5.Ali Williams
6.Jerome Kaino(Jerry Collins just starting to show form)
7.Richie McCaw
8.Mose Tuialii(Nick Williams not far behind So'oialo having a slow start)
9.Andy Ellis
10.Dan Carter
11.Joe Rokocoko
12.Stephen Brett/Benson Stanley
13.Isaia Toeava
14.Anthony Tuitavake/Ma'a Nonu
15.Leon Macdonald

16.Corey Flynn
17.Sommerville/Crockett
18.Brad Thorne (course you wouldnt pick these three as locks but this is on form alone)
19.Nick Williams
20.Danny Lee
21.Nick Evans
22.Mils Muliaina

 

[Caledfwlch]

Wow..... :blink:

Its just struck home that this years AB ineup is going to so diff with the old guard i.e Mauger, McAlister, Howlett, Jack, Oliver.

 

[Fushitsusha]

Phibbs played one good game, I don't see how that would give him a Wallabies berth.
[/b]

Phibbs was my 'man of the match' against the Reds and performed better than any other Australian halfback this year thus far.

In my opinion Phibbs has been a highly underrated player over the past couple of years and should have gone to Europe in 2006 over Valentine after having a stellar ARC (The inaugural 'ARC' featuring the S14 teams).

Since Holmes has yet to fire I really do believe that Phibbs is thus far the best candidate for the Wallabies halfback job.

Anyways, it looks as though that the Wallabies (and the Brumbies minus Giteau) will be looking at having an inside backs combination featuring Giteau at flyhalf, and Mortlock and Ashley-Cooper in the centres.

No doubt that Giteau has been the standout flyhalf so far, and having two strong ball runners/defenders in the centres should compliment him.

The only possible change there could be that we see Staniforth at inside centre and Mortlock at outside centre. Ryan Cross has been good but I don't think we'll see him elevated from Australia A yet. And Timana Tahu will be lucky to play for Australia A. If Tyrone Smith keeps playing like he is there's no doubt he'll be playing for Australia A.

Gerrard now has the opportunity to shine at fullback, and if he continues like he did last week I think he'll take over from Latham. He's got an awesome boot and is a strong ball runner. There's always been criticism about his pace but there's no doubt he's an excellent backline player who has no trouble finding the line. Cameron Shepherd will need to regain the form he had last year, and Mitchell and Turner are much better suited to the wings.

In the forwards there's no doubt that George Smith and Stephen Hoiles have been the standout backrowers. Elsom has also been strong but Chapman is also putting in good performances.

Unfortunately Elsom has hardly been contested over the past couple of years for his spot in the Wallabies and he's the kind of player (like Palu, Vickerman and most of the Tahs forwards) who go missing during the big matches. He wasn't even the first choice player in 2006 when Daniel Heenan was around.

Is Vickerman staying until the end of the Tri Nations or is he ******* off early? If he goes then no doubt the locks will be Chisholm and Sharpe. They're a long way ahead of the competition. Sharpe just needs to learn that scrumtime isn't nap time.

We can't have Dunning and Baxter ever again in the team. Holmes and Shepherdson are the leading contenders here but there are some young guys such as Maafu and Kepu who will be making themselves known. And you can't ignore Henderson who can play both sides of the scrum.

Anyways, it's certainly too early to tell what the team will look like, but that's my 2 cents worth.

Oh, and no more Tuqiri either. He's well past his prime.

I'd rather see Drew Mitchell, Lachlan Turner, Peter Playford, or even Ryan Cross or Digby Ioane.

 

[sambãd5]

mills

[/size]

There is definatly competiton in the loosies, collins is on fire atm, but in number 8, lauaki is in extremely bad form, and mose, rodney and nick are all playing well. i think that 9 lee will get it, but again, competiton from ellis atm on form. and centres. alot of combinations there. nonu could even get 12. but definatly see him at 13 or 14. if he does play centre, will be interesting to see who fits into the 14 shirt.

 

[BLR]

I think Mitchell showed in the Cheetahs game he is a very viable full back option, it was by far the best game he has played from that position...and it solves the problem with his left boot as he won't be on one side of the pitch all game...

 

[nam97]

New Zealand:

1. Woodcock
2. Mealamu
3. Somerville
4. Flavell
5. Williams
6. Collins
7. McCaw
8. Tuiali'i/Williams/Lauaki

9. Weepu
10. Evans
11. Rokocoko
12. Carter
13. Nonu
14. Sivivatu
15. Muliaina

16. Hore
17. Tialata
18. Eaton
19. So'oialo
20. Leonard
21. Toeava
22. MacDonald

------------------------------------------------------

IMO, So'oialo doesn't cut it as a pure international no.8 which is why I have him on the bench (he can cover both 7 & 8). He doesn't make damaging runs like the other 3 I have named at no.8, and he just isn't big and scary enough. I am tempted to put Brad Thorn in, he's been solid as a rock and it's a toss up between him Flavel and Eaton for me.

Evans is better than Carter at 10. Don't laugh, he is. Carter would be better at 12, he makes his fair share of breaks and tackles so it will suit him. Nonu is having a blinder and his ball running and bulk is needed IMO. Back 3 speak for themselves.

 

[Fushitsusha]

I think Mitchell showed in the Cheetahs game he is a very viable full back option, it was by far the best game he has played from that position...and it solves the problem with his left boot as he won't be on one side of the pitch all game...
[/b]

I think Mitchell is a problem at fullback but he's not been very good under the high ball and his defence isn't too strong.

I think his best aspect is that he's a good strong ball runner. He scored a lot of tries in the World Cup not out of anything he created, but plays he finished.

 

[BLR]

I think his best aspect is that he's a good strong ball runner. He scored a lot of tries in the World Cup not out of anything he created, but plays he finished.
[/b]

Tell that to the Wallabies in the Quarter Final of the World Cup...

 

[Fushitsusha]

<div class='quotemain'>
I think his best aspect is that he's a good strong ball runner. He scored a lot of tries in the World Cup not out of anything he created, but plays he finished.
[/b]

Tell that to the Wallabies in the Quarter Final of the World Cup...
[/b][/quote]

The QF was lost due to a lazy fowards and lack of support play from anyone...

 

[BLR]

The QF was lost due to a lazy fowards and lack of support play from anyone...
[/b]

Yet still when Mitchell came on a certain spark that was missing the entire game was added to the team...I agreed with you before the World Cup that he wasn't much of a player but the World Cup showed unequivocally that he was an important player to the Wallaby team when many others didn't come to the show...

 

[Fushitsusha]

<div class='quotemain'>
The QF was lost due to a lazy fowards and lack of support play from anyone...
[/b]

Yet still when Mitchell came on a certain spark that was missing the entire game was added to the team...I agreed with you before the World Cup that he wasn't much of a player but the World Cup showed unequivocally that he was an important player to the Wallaby team when many others didn't come to the show...
[/b][/quote]

I don't think he sparked much of anything really.

Mortlock was the shining light for the Wallabies in that game, but no one was ever there to support him everytime he broke the English line.

But I'll give Mitchell credit for what was his best form during that tournament. Anyways, I think he's a far better suited for the wing than fullback, and last year was evidence to that.

 

[Juggernaut]

New Zealand:

1. Woodcock
2. Mealamu
3. Somerville
4. Flavell
5. Williams
6. Collins
7. McCaw
8. Tuiali'i/Williams/Lauaki

9. <strike>Weepu</strike> Ellis/Lee
10. Evans
11. Rokocoko
12. Carter
13. <strike>Nonu</strike> Toeava
14. <strike>Sivivatu</strike> Nonu
15. Muliaina

16. Hore
17. Tialata
18. Eaton
19. So'oialo
20. Leonard
21. Laulala/Smith/Kahui

22. MacDonald

------------------------------------------------------
[/b]

Fixed it,,,and that would be my team.

Weepu hasnt been delivering and the past 3 games has shown that. Ellis and the wily old veteran Lee are the pick for me.

Sivivatu has been lazy most of the time....and Nonu deserves his starting spot at wing, not at centre, where Toeava is the leading contender right now and is miles ahead of his nearest competitor.

 

[nam97]

<div class='quotemain'> New Zealand:

1. Woodcock
2. Mealamu
3. Somerville
4. Flavell
5. Williams
6. Collins
7. McCaw
8. Tuiali'i/Williams/Lauaki

9. <strike>Weepu</strike> Ellis/Lee
10. Evans
11. Rokocoko
12. Carter
13. <strike>Nonu</strike> Toeava
14. <strike>Sivivatu</strike> Nonu
15. Muliaina

16. Hore
17. Tialata
18. Eaton
19. So'oialo
20. Leonard
21. Laulala/Smith/Kahui

22. MacDonald

------------------------------------------------------
[/b]

Fixed it,,,and that would be my team.

Weepu hasnt been delivering and the past 3 games has shown that. Ellis and the wily old veteran Lee are the pick for me.

Sivivatu has been lazy most of the time....and Nonu deserves his starting spot at wing, not at centre, where Toeava is the leading contender right now and is miles ahead of his nearest competitor.
[/b][/quote]

But do you think Nonu is quick enough to be on the wing? I think he is more of a threat than Toeava.

And you also think the Evans at 10/Carter at 12 is a better option? I really do think it is, Evans is too good a player to be on the bench.

 

[Juggernaut]

Toeava is much much more of a threat than Nonu because of 3 things:

1. creating gaps, 2. distribution & 3. defence

Yes, Nonu is a destructive runner and can create gaps but he often goes to the ground with the ball or throws mis-timed passes to his support runner thus losing momentum or losing possession......and the less we talk about his defence the better.

Toeava is also the same destructive runner but it's his distribution skills that sets him apart. That's why Roks, Wulf & Tuitavake has been scoring a lot of tries. His defence is rock solid as well.



Also from your original list, I left the Evans/Carter combination as it is because I think it could be one of the best ever.

 

[nam97]

Toeava is much much more of a threat than Nonu because of 3 things:

1. creating gaps, 2. distribution & 3. defence

Yes, Nonu is a destructive runner and can create gaps but he often goes to the ground with the ball or throws mis-timed passes to his support runner thus losing momentum or losing possession......and the less we talk about his defence the better.

Toeava is also the same destructive runner but it's his distribution skills that sets him apart. That's why Roks, Wulf & Tuitavake has been scoring a lot of tries. His defence is rock solid as well.



Also from your original list, I left the Evans/Carter combination as it is because I think it could be one of the best ever.
[/b]

I agree Toeava possesses those abilities, but time and time again he has failed to show this for the All Blacks. The time Nonu has had in the black jersey has been brief so he hasn't really had a chance, Toeava has had more of a chance and hasn't impressed. Even last year, he had a blinder in the Suer 14 and was again average on the bigger stage.

If he can carry the form he continually carries with the Blues over to the All Blacks, then yes I would pick him over Nonu. However, I would leave Nonu on the bench because I don't think he is a winger and there's loads of other specialised wingers in the country who would do better. Also, the more I think about it, Nonu is taylor made to come off the bench later in the game.

Bang on with Evans/Carter, and with a destructive center outside them, our backline would run like a dream.