Interesting comments by Canadian National coach, Kieran Crowley...

Discussion in 'International Test Matches' started by CDN_Rugby, Jun 19, 2010.

  1. CDN_Rugby

    CDN_Rugby Senior Member

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    http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/sp...run-at-churchill-cup-tournament-96663834.html

    Given Crowley's comments, this got me thinking, do you think there is a bias against Canadian players? While I'm not sure that a lot of Canadians could play Super 14, I certainly think all of them are capable of atleast RFU Championship and Pro D2 level, while many could probably play Magners, Top 14, or GP. Hell, Jamie Cudmore didn't even get a shot in Europe till he was well into his 20's. I know a lot of people will probably suggest that Canadians "aren't good enough" but when you see guys like Adam Kleeberger, Aaron Carpenter, Chauncey O'Toole, and Justin Mensah-Coker not even getting offers to play top flight rugby, it makes you wonder...
     
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  3. Teh Mite

    Teh Mite TRF Legend

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    A lot would struggle to get into Premiership teams purely because of the foreign players rule, which includes people from Asia, South Sea Islands, Australia and the Americas. It's unlikely these guys are better then former All Blacks or Wallabies and the teams can only play one or two non-eu trade agreement players in any Matchday 23.
     
  4. MichaelBoard

    MichaelBoard Senior Member

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    Nothing wrong with Canadian players, don't think its the fact that theres a bias against Canadian players, at the end of the day if a player is good then his nationality is irrelevant. Wouldn't say theres a boas, its more that over here nobody really sees the Canadians play rugby other than if they play autumn internationals or at the World Cup. I've no doubt that they've got good players just many people havn't seen them. The dragons have just recently signed Matt Evans and although U.S.A players are not Canadian, I think it is fair to say that the U.S.A possess players of similar talent to Canada and who have about as much exposure as Canadian players and we've signed a few of those in the past in Mike Hercus and Paul Emerick. Also have a look at: http://www.wru.co.uk/22080.php The wru have made a deal with Rugby Canada to bring Canadian internationals over to North Wales to help develop a new region that will hopefully complete in the premiership
     
  5. veux

    veux Senior Member

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    Where are they going to see Canadians play? As have been said it's easier for teams to sign an ex all black for a couple of years while they develop someone internally as well.
     
  6. Wally

    Wally Senior Member

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    I think if a Canadian player is talented and driven to succeed he needs to pack his bags and play in one of the domestic competitions over here. Whether that be NPC, Currie Cup or one of the Australian amateur competitions in Queensland or NSW. Obviously that is a tough ask emotionally and financially but unless they make an impact during a world cup it would be very hard for them to be noticed. Perhaps the Super 15 teams should invest in some scouts to monitor the various competitions around the Americas. Alternatively they need to find a decent agent with contacts who can push their game footage to various sides around the world.
     
  7. admartian

    admartian Senior Member

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    I think the answer is to make some sort of Panam-Pacific competition (possibly comprising of Canada, America, Japan, Argentina, and the Pacific nations) which could potentially increase the rugby quality if they get some sort of regular club competition.

    Though I doubt they would find it economically viable to do it in a 'Season' (i.e. Super 14, T14 etc) style of play. Perhaps make it more of a tournament setting where the best clubs from each country (say 2-3 each) play-off in a pre-determined spot (e.g. a city in the US one year, then Canada/Japan etc the next) for a couple of months to determine a champion. This would cut out the frequent flights to and from the countries, and minimise it to just one-off (yearly) flight to compete against the best clubs from each nation.

    I know Japan has their own competition going, but I believe the reason why rugby is good in NH and SH is because the countries are exposed to other styles. This would be great for rugby worldwide if they can do this.
     
  8. Wally

    Wally Senior Member

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    I don't think that would work. It's just not commercially viable, even with the iRB on board. Canada and the United States need to look after their own backyard an go from there. The establishment of a professional league with teams from both countries based out of cities which have the best rugby infrastructure in place is a priority. Building from the grass roots up is the only way forward. Ok so the sport is never going to fully crack the American market but if it could be half as successful as soccer in that country it will be in a much stronger position.
     
  9. snoopy snoopy dog dog

    snoopy snoopy dog dog Senior Member

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    I think Crowley is blowing a lot of hot air. French clubs are packed full of Georgian and Romanian players. Vas Artemiev the Russian wing/full back is supposedly moving to Northampton. A Cook Islander is a starting prop for Leinster. An American/Zimbabwean started for Biarritz in the Heineken Cup final. There are God knows how many south sea islanders dotted around the best club teams around. All those countries are of a similar standard to Canada yet their players have no problem getting deals in Europe.

    Thinking a little more outside the box, since the NA4 didn't work maybe the way to go is for the iRB to offer grants for players from tier 2 (and below) countries to sign with clubs from tier 1 countries. I'm sure guys like Chauncey O'Toole and Victor Gresev would pick up a contract with a cash strapped club if the iRB offered to pick up, say, 25% of the players wages.
     
  10. TRF_SelimNiai

    TRF_SelimNiai 'Ark at ee mun!

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    Al Charron was a Bristol Legend, still talked about as one of our best forwards of the last 20 years.
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2010
  11. Thingimubob

    Thingimubob Senior Member

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    I remember Ed Fairhurst used to play scrum half for the Blues too - think he was a deputy to Mike Phillips though, but still did a great job whenever he played. Him and Phillips were probably great mentors to Wayne Evans when they were all at the Blues, who has now turned into one of Wales' brightest prospects at scrum half.
     
  12. TRF_Cymro

    TRF_Cymro Cymro The White

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    Rod Snow anyone? What a prop for the Dragons. Dan Baugh is a legend for the Blues and is currently on the staff there. Baugh was such a crazy player and also very hard. Morgan Williams, John and Luke Tait, Gareth Rees and Mike James are all successful Canadians to play overseas. I don't think they are overlooked just don't fit the plans of some teams.
     
  13. Conal

    Conal Senior Member

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    Ed fairhurst :D
     
  14. Prestwick

    Prestwick Airhornsman

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    American winger Chris Wyles has been a revelation for us over the last year or so. Quite versatile now at both wing and full back.

    I think European rugby has its fair share of visitors from smaller rugby nations and as its been said rules, laws and regulations limit how many can be on a team anyway.

    The fact remains that the only way these players can get more game time is if they can play professional rugby in their own countries. Jim Telfer recently noted the difference Scotland having professional club sides period has had compared with Argentina and its amateur set up.
     
  15. Teh Mite

    Teh Mite TRF Legend

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    Interesting thing about Chris Wyles is apart from raw pace, he's was never very good. He has however developed a knack of being in the right place in the right time.
     
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