International catchment teams

Discussion in 'General Rugby Union' started by unrated, Nov 13, 2019.

  1. unrated

    unrated First XV

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    Some teams such as South Africa started to make their catchment teams their u20 sides so that in this way all players who played for their age group side will be tied to their country and can’t possibly become a project player in another country.

    This to me was a great idea.

    Now I hear the rule has been changed and that you cant do this anymore.

    I wonder in who’s best interest it was to change this rule if someone can please verify it for us.

    So let’s use an example.

    Reports about a young Stormers Lock that I have recently touted in the 2023 thread as a future Springbok has surfaced. Cobus Wiese. It states that he is on his way to Saracens. Yes the same one the has just been penalized by their own league for salary breaches.

    He played in the u20 World Cup and should be tied to South Africa, or can this law change have something to say about that?

    Regardless of the above case scenarios with Cobus Wiese, will this law change encourage other nations to buy project players in the future? Since nations such as South Africa would not be able to tie their players via their u20 team anymore and would have to resort to a b team for Catchment which is rarely used.
     
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  3. Leinster Fan

    Leinster Fan First XV

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    I think it's to stop teams using their U20s to cap every young player within sight who could play for more than one country (through parentage etc.)

    Can see why you'd be annoyed as a South African though and fair enough.
     
  4. Bruce_ma_goose

    Bruce_ma_goose First XV

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    It is in the interests of the players and protecting their rights and yup, it'll make project players more viable particularly with SA kids going overseas. What it totally fails to acknowledge is that none of these players would be within a million miles of international selection for any rugby side if they hadn't been invested in as children by fellow South Africans (and the union).

    If we can charge people to access the basic right of education (e.g. universities in some 'developed' countries) then I dont see why we can't legally charge youth players a hefty bill for rugby training, but have the home union pick up 100% of the bill (or give a loan to the player to pay it) when the player is aged say, 35. A bill (or loan) that the player will never have to pay a single rand, euro or pound for unless they forfeit a contract and play for a rival nation before the age of 35. There has to be some legal way to ensure that international competition remains based on teams representing rival nations, filled with players raised in those rival nations.
     
  5. TRF_Olyy

    TRF_Olyy English Arrogance

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    Pacific Island teams would struggle to field sides - no aspiring young kiwi is gonna turn out for them if it shuts the door on playing for the All Blacks at senior level
     
  6. Leinster Fan

    Leinster Fan First XV

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    The idea of forcing say 16 year olds to remain committed to their employer for almost 20 years seems pretty f***ed up to me in all honesty. Not to mention that in a lot of cases these players are developed by clubs and the national union can hardly claim credit, and said clubs are hardly going to be on board with lumping any aspiring young players with a potential debt down the line. And at what point do you decide which country developed you? AJ McGinty played all his rugby in Ireland (and was never anything even resembling exceptional) and then he went to college in the US and improved massively eventually becoming an international there but also reaching a standard where he was a viable premiership outhalf. Who deserves credit for that? Us or them? Or does this system start the instant a player first touches the a rugby ball for the minis at the age of 5?

    Anyway, what's to stop the union of whatever country the player does pay for footing the bill? I'd imagine the IRFU would just put in every contract they offer someone a 'we'll pay your fees in the event you play for us clause' and whole thing is pointless.

    I'd imagine the whole concept is probably not legally enforceable either, but I'll freely admit that there are plenty of other on here more qualified to comment on that side of things than I am.
     
  7. unrated

    unrated First XV

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  8. TRF_heineken

    TRF_heineken RIP #J9

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    For me, it's more to do with the freedom of choice.

    An U/20 player has the right to choose to not be considered for the U/20 national team. He's not being forced to play for them, and to me when he is asked to be part of the squad, it shows that he's committed to that country and wants to be a representative of that country. To jump ship after representation is the part I dislike.

    I understand that the kids are still young. But in all honesty, surely the kid had some sort of discussion with his parents at some point between the age of 16-20 about staying in SA and becoming as Springbok player, or go abroad and look at other possible options, and maybe even have discussions with overseas based teams/scouts/agents.
     
  9. TRF_stormer2010

    TRF_stormer2010 Super Moderator

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    I'm not overly concerned. Irked a tad, yes but this is a reality that we are going to have to accept and I believe the mere fact we can call on overseas-based players is enough.

    SA Rugby isn't going to fix the Rand. We can't compete with the Top 14 ITO player demand and pay. I can't blame these young guys for playing their rugby elsewhere if it means they get to play rugby at a high level and get payed. You never know in sport how long you have. We'll lose a few for sure but I believe if there is a spot in the test side for them these boys will look to SA first. If they don't then its better not to have them on board in any way.

    Come test games that count we know every single man in our team is a South African and probably a South African that made personal sacrifices along the way to represent his country. I'll rather have that man representing me and mine at the end of the day.
     
  10. TRF_heineken

    TRF_heineken RIP #J9

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    The thing is that this isn't really new news. I mean since I was in school, plenty of schoolboys went abroad to play rugby. Most of them didn't get university scholarships, or into a rugby academy and instead of their parents paying high fees for them to go to Uni they go abroad and play rugby, which in one way is the kid's way of helping their parents financially, while also becoming an independant adult.

    One of my best friends went to Italy the day after he wrote his final matric exam to play rugby. He played for 2 different teams while he was there, and when he came back at the ripe age of 22, he played for SWD, while completing his marketing degree.

    I guess the reason why this report is bothering people, is because of the caliber players that are going. It used to be the guys that are seen as lower on the totem pole.
     
  11. TRF_Olyy

    TRF_Olyy English Arrogance

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    [​IMG]
     
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  12. unrated

    unrated First XV

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    This guy is retired from international rugby! Sure you can reference one guy who used to play for us. Does one past retired player count as good evidence, probably not. But yes its a technicality that we cannot deny. Damn Springboks poaching those Zimbabweans from zim... Its becoming ridiculous, the sheer amount of Zimbabweans crossing the border to South Africa, lured by the Springbok. WR should really increase the residency rule so that fled from dictator does not count under the grandparents rule

    Ps. Beast was nurtured as a schoolboy by the Sharks academy.
     
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  13. Bruce_ma_goose

    Bruce_ma_goose First XV

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    Well, it's not really forcing them. If they can get caps for another nation then they can easily pay off a debt commensurate to how much was invested in their training back home. And if they dont get caps for another country, then they dont have to pay anything.

    I'd love it if unions that employee dedicated project player coordinators paid compensation or a finders fee for training expenses outlaid by the originating unions and schools. It would be a fair exchange and make it a bit more palatable.
     
  14. TRF_stormer2010

    TRF_stormer2010 Super Moderator

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    Pffft, this man is as South African as pap and wors.

    In any event its not as if any SA rugby teams are actively scouring the earth to find foreigners to fill our ranks like NH teams seem want to do.
     
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