Ireland And O2 Ireland Wolfhounds Squads Announced

[jovialjonny]

That is true but equally, Kidney has failed to acknowledge a bunch of players are in serious decline. Gordon D'arcy, Leo Cullen and Donncha O'Callaghan are spent forces at international level. Paddy Wallace is neither a first team member nor is he the future. Shane Jennings has never fully grasped his opportunities at full international level and isn't playing as well as younger tyros. People are right for criticising those selections. I can understand picking D'arcy because Ireland will need experience in the centre (with O'Driscoll out) but the other picks are off the wall.

Kidney is making the same mistakes that Eddie O'Sullivan made after the failed 2007 World Cup campaign- he's backing old warhorses to show a return to form when all evidence suggests he's wrong.

Cullen and Wallace I agree on. D'arcy is probably fortunate that because of BOD they need his experience. DOC has been an effective impact off the bench for Munster, his stats are still impressive every time, his workrate is as high as ever.

Comparisons with EOS doesnt weigh up for one important reason - Ireland were utter **** at the 07 world cup and went out at the group stages. In 2011 we won every group game, beating one of the tournament favourites along the way. We didnt get the performance we needed at the quarters and were out, cest la vie. We blew a chance at the quarters but it was still on balance probably our best ever world cup. Why rip up the playbook after that?

 

[big ginger 8]

DO'C's benn coming off the bench whereas Tuohy, Toner and Caldwell have mainly been starting and will be around for the next W.C..

@ Saintjay I still think we can do well in the 6n however it's not good for the future and we'd probably do better with the younger in-form players.

 

[Groundhog]

Doesn't really make sense to bring in idotic rules to develop young Irish players while giving the finger to foreign players (and the provinces) whove served their sides well if these young players aren't going to get a game for their country

 

[Feicarsinn]

Cullen and Wallace I agree on. D'arcy is probably fortunate that because of BOD they need his experience. DOC has been an effective impact off the bench for Munster, his stats are still impressive every time, his workrate is as high as ever.

Comparisons with EOS doesnt weigh up for one important reason - Ireland were utter **** at the 07 world cup and went out at the group stages. In 2011 we won every group game, beating one of the tournament favourites along the way. We didnt get the performance we needed at the quarters and were out, cest la vie. We blew a chance at the quarters but it was still on balance probably our best ever world cup. Why rip up the playbook after that?

Put is this way. Why would a player who can't get into the Munster team be in the Ireland squad over players who start week in and week out for Leinster and Ulster, two better teams than Munster? And what good is it anyway in playing a player who won't be around for the next world cup when there are younger players performing at least as well.

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

Comparisons with EOS doesnt weigh up for one important reason - Ireland were utter **** at the 07 world cup and went out at the group stages. In 2011 we won every group game, beating one of the tournament favourites along the way. We didnt get the performance we needed at the quarters and were out, cest la vie. We blew a chance at the quarters but it was still on balance probably our best ever world cup. Why rip up the playbook after that?

In the 2011 World Cup, Ireland played badly against Wales, USA, Russia and were poor for the opening 40 against Italy. In my opinion, 1 1/2 impressive performances does not a good World Cup make. In the warm ups Ireland were tosh and they were very disappointing during the previous 6 Nations. Changes need to be made. We're on a slide at international level and unfortunately one great result against Australia is masking that.

 

[Saintjay]

DO'C's benn coming off the bench whereas Tuohy, Toner and Caldwell have mainly been starting and will be around for the next W.C..

@ Saintjay I still think we can do well in the 6n however it's not good for the future and we'd probably do better with the younger in-form players.

Thanks mate. Looking forward to the start, I think it is pretty open this year. Prehaps Kidney is having one last swan song for a number of players. There is a long time till the WC. Some of the good young players will fall away and others are yet to come. I don't think it is as big as tragedy as it may seem.

 

[profitius]

Put is this way. Why would a player who can't get into the Munster team be in the Ireland squad over players who start week in and week out for Leinster and Ulster, two better teams than Munster? And what good is it anyway in playing a player who won't be around for the next world cup when there are younger players performing at least as well.

To be fair to DOC he is behind the 2 best second rows in the country. Having said that I think Tuohy should be given a chance. DOC, D'Arcy, Cullen, Paddy Wallace and Jennings should be thanked for their efforts and left to concentrate playing with their provinces.

 

[profitius]

Thanks mate. Looking forward to the start, I think it is pretty open this year. Prehaps Kidney is having one last swan song for a number of players. There is a long time till the WC. Some of the good young players will fall away and others are yet to come. I don't think it is as big as tragedy as it may seem.

He picked the world cup squad again so thats the plan. They were not good enough in the world cup and hes giving them another chance to prove themselves... makes no sense to me. If Ireland win the 6 nations then Kidney is a genius.

 

[munstermuffin]

Lads can I just add - I can understand people been upset about Cullen or DOC is squad but if Toner was in that squad then that a sad day for Irish rugby. Really Tuohy I can understand but Toner is a Magners league player no more. Now that isn't defending selection of other 2 just saying I'd have them ahead of Toner

 

[Feicarsinn]

Lads can I just add - I can understand people been upset about Cullen or DOC is squad but if Toner was in that squad then that a sad day for Irish rugby. Really Tuohy I can understand but Toner is a Magners league player no more. Now that isn't defending selection of other 2 just saying I'd have them ahead of Toner

Despite starting and playing very well at Heineken Cup level. It's nice to see that you're basing your national selections on last season. Toner has been Leinster's best lock this season beyond a shadow of a doubt and was probably our best player against Glasgow last week.

 

[munstermuffin]

Despite starting and playing very well at Heineken Cup level. It's nice to see that you're basing your national selections on last season. Toner has been Leinster's best lock this season beyond a shadow of a doubt and was probably our best player against Glasgow last week.

And last season Coughlan was the best 8 in Ireland - I don't hear anyone calling for him in green. Toner is playing well but leinster haven't had a real tough group in Europe and in my opinion Toner isn't international class.

 

[Feicarsinn]

And last season Coughlan was the best 8 in Ireland - I don't hear anyone calling for him in green. Toner is playing well but leinster haven't had a real tough group in Europe and in my opinion Toner isn't international class.

James Coughlan the best 8 in the country last year Classic.

 

[munstermuffin]

James Coughlan the best 8 in the country last year Classic.

Can I ask who you thought was the better 8 (on form)

Everyone agreed Heaslip wasn't on top form and Coughlan outplayed him in ML Final and April game in Thomond.
Coughlans stats (if you go technical) ranked as best. Heaslip ranked 3rd.

I'm not saying he is better than Heaslip as the key word is "Form" . Coughlan had form Heaslip has class, and that is in my opinion same case for Toner.

 

[big ginger 8]

Toner has improved as a player no end what aspect of his game is not up to scratch if you say carrying. Your wrong; I'd have said the same thing a year ago but he's improved it no end.

 

[munstermuffin]

Toner has improved as a player no end what aspect of his game is not up to scratch if you say carrying. Your wrong; I'd have said the same thing a year ago but he's improved it no end.

Well look I wouldn't see him close up like Leinster fans and well as I put it -it's only my opinion I'm not saying he hasn't improved just think he isn't international calss

 

[Peat]

Toner seems to have found some consistency and some lovely hands. I'm not certain I'd write him off right now.

Gods know you're in a wee bit of trouble if MM is right, as then you've only got two locks under 32 of roughly the right standard and out of nappies. Oh wait sorry. McCarthy's only 31.

 

[munstermuffin]

My locks for 6 Nations would be:
Ryan is in superb form
POC a given and a leader
Tuohy has been consistent and been held back too long

Who'd partner POC - I don't know wouldn't mind either.

If I were to name a starting 15:
Kearney
Earls/McFadden - A toss up really Earls is the better winger but off form really should be Luke Fitz
Bowe
Wallace ahead of D'Arcy ?????
Trimble - Not his biggest fan but is the form winger
Sexton
Murray
Heaslip
SOB
Ferris
POC
D.Ryan (Out of 4 locks in squad he is 2nd best behind POC)
Ross
Best
Healy

Cronin
Court
Cullen
Jenning (Really think O'Mahony/Ruddock should be here)
Reddan
ROG
I'd have Earls here as cover atm

 

[Jockstap]

My locks for 6 Nations would be:
Ryan is in superb form
POC a given and a leader
Tuohy has been consistent and been held back too long

Who'd partner POC - I don't know wouldn't mind either.

If I were to name a starting 15:
Kearney
Earls/McFadden - A toss up really Earls is the better winger but off form really should be Luke Fitz
Bowe
Wallace ahead of D'Arcy ?????
Trimble - Not his biggest fan but is the form winger
Sexton
Murray
Heaslip
SOB
Ferris
POC
D.Ryan (Out of 4 locks in squad he is 2nd best behind POC)
Ross
Best
Healy

Cronin
Court
Cullen
Jenning (Really think O'Mahony/Ruddock should be here)
Reddan
ROG
I'd have Earls here as cover atm

McFadden has been far and away the best 12 this season, it's D'Arcy's experience coupled with BOD's, Horgan's and now Fitzgerald's injury that is holding him back from the starting 12 spot at Leinster in my opinion.

 

[munstermuffin]

McFadden has been far and away the best 12 this season, it's D'Arcy's experience coupled with BOD's, Horgan's and now Fitzgerald's injury that is holding him back from the starting 12 spot at Leinster in my opinion.

Won't argue that point was trying to just think like Kidney a little And add in my own flavour. Do rate McFadden highly and hope he is 12

 

[Irishflanker]

Just to play devils advocate here... I'm sure that Kidneys contract requires a good six nation's performance and aren't the seedings for the next world cup going to be influenced by our 6N performances, in other words he knows what he is working with and what exactly he should be able to get them to achieve. Perhaps even certain players in the 'full squad' are there and being told that they have to show why they are there (DOC, Wallace, Jennings), and that the wolfhounds players are being given a chance to prove why they should be in the squad instead/ find fitness.
Still however Marshall,Gilroy, and Hagan all should have been in the Wolfhounds squad.
Also the group of tackle bag holders is a good idea, it's what NZ do with the up and coming stars...