Ireland Squad for North American Tour

[big ginger 8]

I'm currently procrastinating so given the Welsh guys have their thread I'll start ours. We are playing two matches one against America and one against Canada. In all likelihood we'll have a caretaker coach. Probably Bradley or Foley. From this tour I want development. I don't really want too many older guys even if they're not touring with the Lions. Give them a summer off and time off from Ireland.

Props: Kilcoyne, Archer, Buckley, Loughney,

Not much choice. We won't exactly be coming up against scrummaging forces lets find out as much as possible about these guys.

Hookers: Cronin, Sherry

An argument could be made for Strauss as well I'd rather not.

Locks: Tuohy, Toner, Kearney/PO'C

I like what Kearney's been doing at Connacht and is only 21. If PO'C doesn't go with the Lions he'd be useful as a leadership figure and a good way to ease him back into international rugby.

Backrow: Henderson, O'Donnell, Ryan, Ruddock

Maybe should have Henry in there not sure on his injury status. Easy to forget Ruddock is already capped. If you want a more recognised 8 I'd go with McKeon.

Scrumhalves: Marshall, Marmion

Murray's been good these last two weeks but played a lot of rugby since breaking onto the scene, give him a rest. Besides want to see what these two can do.

Outhalves: Madigan, Jackson

Don't think there's too much to say here.

Centres: Marshall, Cave, McSharry, McFadden

McFadden to also cover wing. O'Malley or Griffen possibilities? If Marshall recovers soon and is playing all of Ulster's matches maybe leave him as he's becoming a bit injury prone.

Backthree: Henshaw, Zebo, Gilroy, Fitzgerald?

Haven't heard anything on Fitzgerald injury has anyone? If fit may also swap with McFadden and try centre.

Probably too experimental and unlikely. Thoughts?

 

[munstermuffin]

I'd bring
Kilcoyne, Court
Fitzpatrick Archer
Sherry Strauss
Kearney McCarthy Toner Tuohy
Ruddock O'Donnell Henry McLaughlin/Ryan Heaslip Butler

Murray Marshall

Jaxkson Madigan Keatley

McFadden Cave Earls Marshall McSharry

Gilroy Zebo Fitzgearld R. Kearney Trimble Henshaw

 

[big ginger 8]

Fitzgerald out for season with cruciate injury. Guess I'd put Trimble in then. Really hope Fitzgerald can recover and keep his contract.

 

[Conal]

Fitzgerald out for season with cruciate injury. Guess I'd put Trimble in then. Really hope Fitzgerald can recover and keep his contract.

dam you fitzy! STAY FIT
if he had never destroyed his knee he would have kept earls out of the team!

 

[admartian]

Zebo will have a field day.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

1. Kilcoyne, Court
2. Cronin, Strauss
3. Archer, Loughney, Bent

4. Kearney, McCarthy
5. Tuohy, Ryan/Stevenson (I probably have this mixed up, I can never remember who is 4 and who is 5, correct me if I'm wrong)

6. O'Donnell, Ruddock
7. Ryan, Henry
8. Butler, Murphy? We're quite weak at 8 after Heaslip

9. Marshall, Marmion
10 Madigan, Jackson

12. Marshall, McFadden
13. Cave, McSharry

Back three. Jones, Henshaw, Zebo, Kearney, Gilroy, O'Halloran if Zebo makes a bolt for the Lions with Munster

 

[big ginger 8]

McSharry's a 12, O'Donnell's mainly a 7 but in the Wallace mould and I'd suggest McKeon for 8 http://www.rabodirectpro12.com/news/12349.php has looked quite comfortable at H Cup level. Otherwise yeah. Though the lock are all maybe a bit similar for my liking.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

McSharry's a 12, O'Donnell's mainly a 7 but in the Wallace mould and I'd suggest McKeon for 8 http://www.rabodirectpro12.com/news/12349.php has looked quite comfortable at H Cup level. Otherwise yeah. Though the lock are all maybe a bit similar for my liking.

I don't know why McSharry's at 13, I mixed him and Ferg up. I think O'Donnell could cover 6 comfortably, he might be able to fill it better than Ruddock.

 

[munstermuffin]

I don't know why McSharry's at 13, I mixed him and Ferg up. I think O'Donnell could cover 6 comfortably, he might be able to fill it better than Ruddock.

Tommy's original position is a 6 and well it's just in past 12 months he's been asked to play 7 when injuries came to the focus and well since then he has excelled and never looked back but well capable of being a top class 6 too

 

[Peat]

Tommy's original position is a 6 and well it's just in past 12 months he's been asked to play 7 when injuries came to the focus and well since then he has excelled and never looked back but well capable of being a top class 6 too

That recent? I could have sworn he played 7 the first time I went to Ravers, Luke Marshall's debut, and looked class then... and checking, no he didn't. I know I've been thinking he looked a potentially useful 7 for longer than a year though... he'll never be as good a 6 as a 7 imo, just a size thing, although wouldn't dispute him being able to do a job there.

 

[munstermuffin]

That recent? I could have sworn he played 7 the first time I went to Ravers, Luke Marshall's debut, and looked class then... and checking, no he didn't. I know I've been thinking he looked a potentially useful 7 for longer than a year though... he'll never be as good a 6 as a 7 imo, just a size thing, although wouldn't dispute him being able to do a job there.

Oh don't get me wrong he is a better 7 now and better suited but he was a superb 6 also and while he did fill in the odd time in past at 7 it's only in past 12 months that he's been taken seriously as a 7 and he reminds me in some ways of Chris Henry but definitely will be challenging for an Irish slot in next 12-18 months I think but it not the easiest area to be going for.

But just on Irish team and captaincy. I hope Heaslip looses captaincy because for nest few years every one of that Irish backrow will have enough problems holding down their spot without having to worry about captaining a side.Oh don't get me wrong he is a better 7 now and better suited but he was a superb 6 also and while he did fill in the odd time in past at 7 it's only in past 12 months that he's been taken seriously as a 7 and he reminds me in some ways of Chris Henry but definitely will be challenging for an Irish slot in next 12-18 months I think but it not the easiest area to be going for.

But just on Irish team and captaincy. I hope Heaslip looses captaincy because for nest few years every one of that Irish backrow will have enough problems holding down their spot without having to worry about captaining a side.

Also Peat O'Donnell was always said to be too small etc for a backrower in general and even at U-18 level they contemplated throwing him in to hooker as they knew he had talent but again was too small but he stuck to his task and well I think he has mastered around size issues.

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

As I alluded to in the Saracens-Ulster thread, how about Stuart Olding as an option at 12 for the summer tour? My preference for backline alignment is a 9, 10 and 12 as creators with the 11, 13, 14 and 15 as strike runners. Olding outside Madigan could be lethal.

For Ulster a 9, 10, 12, 13 of Pienaar, Jackson, Olding and Marshall has real potential. Marshall's mix of power, speed and good hands may be better used at outside centre. As much as I like Darren Cave, he'll never be world class. Marshall has a better chance of reaching that level in the position.

My team for Ireland's summer tour discounting potential Lions, injuries and resting players:
15. Zebo
14. Trimble
13. Marshall
12. Olding
11. Gilroy
10. Madigan
9. Murray
1. Kilcoyne
2. Strauss
3. Archer (shite but might as well stick with him until Moore comes along)
4. Toner
5. Ryan
6. Henderson
7. Henry
8. O'Mahony
Subs: Cronin, McGrath, Court (not a frontline tighthead but nobody else deserves it), Ruddock, O'Donnell, Marmion, Jackson, Henshaw

 

[big ginger 8]

Yeah think Olding is definitely in with a shot but we may decide to let him play in the JWC as he'd get better gametime.

My team at the moment baring in mind I'd rest most frontline players who don't make the Lions.

1. Kilcoyne
2. Cronin
3. Archer
4. Tuohy
5. Toner
6. Henderson
7. Henry (C)
8. Ruddock
9. Marshall
10. Madigan
11. Gilroy
12. McSharry
13. Cave
14. Trimble
15. Zebo

16. Sherry
17. Would love to see Jack McGrath here but D. Buckley probably deserves it.
18. Loughney (Maybe Hagan if he gets gametime?)
19. Kearney
20. Ryan
21. Marmion
22. Jackson
23. Henshaw

If the backline gets the ball think it could rip it up.

 

[Groundhog]

If Tiernan O'Halloran doesn't make the Lions, I suggest we bring him......
Seriously though I hope we do try some of these Connacht lads, no better time for it really. It's always so difficult for them to play their way into an Irish spot, or even a chance. I don't care how we do. Try play as many younger lads as possible with a few older core players for support.

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

I hope we do try some of these Connacht lads, no better time for it really.

Can't argue with this but who deserves it? I agree with bg8 that Denis Bucley is a good young player but don't think he's up to the highest level. Likewise Jason Harris Wright. Ronan Loughney might tour. Mick Kearney looks decent but until he breaks into the Connacht team, he can't be considered for Ireland. John Muldoon could tour and start but he'll be 33 at the next World Cup so I'm not sure it's a great use of resources. Kieran Marmion and Robbie Henshaw should tour and Dave McSharry has a shot too. In my opinion Buckley, Harris Wright, Kearney, Eoin McKeon, Tiernan O'Halloran and Eoin Griffin will go on the Wolfhounds tour to Georgia.

 

[Groundhog]

Can't argue with this but who deserves it? I agree with bg8 that Denis Bucley is a good young player but don't think he's up to the highest level. Likewise Jason Harris Wright. Ronan Loughney might tour. Mick Kearney looks decent but until he breaks into the Connacht team, he can't be considered for Ireland. John Muldoon could tour and start but he'll be 33 at the next World Cup so I'm not sure it's a great use of resources. Kieran Marmion and Robbie Henshaw should tour and Dave McSharry has a shot too. In my opinion Buckley, Harris Wright, Kearney, Eoin McKeon, Tiernan O'Halloran and Eoin Griffin will go on the Wolfhounds tour to Georgia.

I think McSharry is the best of the bunch. I'm not convinced by Marmion, but I'd love to see any of them get a shot

 

[Peat]

Point a - If deserves comes into it, Tom Court deserves a full rest and pre-season instead of being bollocksed about out of position filling a hole again. Of course, deserve shouldn't come into it, need does, and as Ireland need more tightheads every single minute of international gametime given to Court in the position is sheer lunacy. Take Loughney, take Moore, take Lutton, take Andress - any of them are more likely to benefit and give Ireland another th scrummaging option.

Point b - In any imaginary future Ulster backline, Chris Farrell gets a slot somewhere. Don't know who loses out, but he's a different sort of player with an incredible upper ceiling. Might mean Olding competing with Marshall at 12 - or 13 - or might mean Olding competing with Jackson. Can't say yet. Don't see it happening soon though, our backline already feels a little green without removing the lynchpin.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Point a - If deserves comes into it, Tom Court deserves a full rest and pre-season instead of being bollocksed about out of position filling a hole again. Of course, deserve shouldn't come into it, need does, and as Ireland need more tightheads every single minute of international gametime given to Court in the position is sheer lunacy. Take Loughney, take Moore, take Lutton, take Andress - any of them are more likely to benefit and give Ireland another th scrummaging option.

Point b - In any imaginary future Ulster backline, Chris Farrell gets a slot somewhere. Don't know who loses out, but he's a different sort of player with an incredible upper ceiling. Might mean Olding competing with Marshall at 12 - or 13 - or might mean Olding competing with Jackson. Can't say yet. Don't see it happening soon though, our backline already feels a little green without removing the lynchpin.

How does Olding do at 10? He looked good in his cameo today and Jackson isn't really releasing his backs like a 10 should, Olding looks like a real attacking spark for Ulster when I've seen him and if he can deliver at 10 Ulster's backline could be a hell of a lot more dangerous with Giroy, Bowe, Marshall, Payne etc.. picking lines off fast ball with a creative 10.

 

[munstermuffin]

Just to agree with Peat I think days of Court being TH are over. He's a LH or not needed. As for having no backup TH I presume Archer will have 3 unless Deccie Fitz is fit and after these 2 I presume Bent comes in

 

[Peat]

How does Olding do at 10? He looked good in his cameo today and Jackson isn't really releasing his backs like a 10 should, Olding looks like a real attacking spark for Ulster when I've seen him and if he can deliver at 10 Ulster's backline could be a hell of a lot more dangerous with Giroy, Bowe, Marshall, Payne etc.. picking lines off fast ball with a creative 10.

Haven't really seen enough of Olding there to give conclusive answers but based on what I've seen, it's a potential option. He seems to have as much vision and control as you'd expect a 19 year old fly-half to have and he's got the technical ability. I think given time he could push Jackson - but that's with time. The answer to an inexperienced fly-half is rarely an even more inexperienced fly-half.