Ireland Squad for North American Tour

[munstermuffin]

Is that the real reason or is it just spin? I saw it on other sites too.

Kieran Marmion played in the JWC last year and followed it up by starting every game for Connacht this season. He's touring. As is Robbie Henshaw who appeared in most games for Connacht and is just one year out of school. Michael Bent has a full Super Rugby, ITM Cup and Pro12/Heineken Cup/Amlin Cup season back to back to back and he tours. Hanrahan played 10 or so games for Munster and gets the summer off?

i think Dave still has issue with injury and I'm guessing fact JJ only got 2 weeks off last summer and he played alot of AIL and Munster games but I think as you may see mentioned elsewhere that it might be like Paddy Jackson scenario last year. All I can say from working as part of medical facility that deals with Munster is neither is injured and I know 100% due to their personalities amongst others it's not disciplinary reasons so I really don't know. But I think it obvious anyway they were in original squad and then withdrawn. All I will say in not sure who made call like was it even Munster and I won't comment as I don't know was it players withdrew due to personal reasons. Just it not injury related for JJ although Dave might be just wanting to heal up some old wounds

 

[Peat]

Herring is a wildcard selection. I haven't seen much of him at all for Ulster this season.

Not in my book, and I'm mildly surprised you haven't seen much of him, as he's played a lot. Accurate thrower and active in the loose, beginning to show a few flourishes, does ok to supply Payne's try here - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixP7fvABtOI -always thought he'd tour. I think. Can't be bothered to check my squad predictions.

 

[dudeabides]

Thanks for posting the squad and I think it will be a good match even though definitely in one team's favor that is bringing the best they can to my eyes. I bought a ticket for their match against USA in Houston a while ago and you have no idea how much I've been looking forward to it.

 

[big ginger 8]

My teams for the first matches of the respective tours though I want basically all to get gametime.

N.A.:

1. Kilcoyne
2. Best (c)
3. Hagan
4. Tuohy
5. Toner
6. McLaughlin
7. O'Donnell
8. O'Mahony
9. Marmion
10. Madigan
11. Zebo
12. Olding
13. Cave
14. Trimble
15. Henshaw

16. Sherry
17. Court
18. Fitzpatrick
19. Henderson
20. Henry
21. Marshall
22. Jackson
23. McFadden

Tblisi:

1. McGrath
2. Cronin
3. Moore
4. Stevenson
5. Foley
6. Ruddock (c)
7. Ryan
8. Diack
9. Cooney
10. Keatley
11. O'Hallorn
12. Marsh
13. Griffen
14. Conway
15. Morris

16. Herring
17. Lutton
18. Bent
19. Nagle
20. Murphy
21. Heaney
22. Macken
23. Kearney.

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

This is the Ireland team that played the USA four years ago:
http://www.irishrugby.ie/rugby/match_centre.php?section=lineups&fixid=77139

Of the starting XV, Casey, Leamy, O'Driscoll, Dowling and Murphy have retired. Duffy, Whitten, Stringer, Buckley, Muldoon and Ronan are unlikely to ever earn another test cap. Only Best, Ross, Keatley (possibly) and Cave have international futures as do bench players that day Cronin, Ryan, Reddan and Court.

Compare that with the squad named today. There are comparatively few passengers on this tour compared to four years ago. I suspect Fitzpatrick and Marshall won't be capped again after this tour.

 

[big ginger 8]

This is the Ireland team that played the USA four years ago:
http://www.irishrugby.ie/rugby/match_centre.php?section=lineups&fixid=77139

Of the starting XV, Casey, Leamy, O'Driscoll, Dowling and Murphy have retired. Duffy, Whitten, Stringer, Buckley, Muldoon and Ronan are unlikely to ever earn another test cap. Only Best, Ross, Keatley (possibly) and Cave have international futures as do bench players that day Cronin, Ryan, Reddan and Court.

Compare that with the squad named today. There are comparatively few passengers on this tour compared to four years ago. I suspect Fitzpatrick and Marshall won't be capped again after this tour.

Have a look at the Churchill cup squad of that year some much more standout players Healy, SO'B, Sexton, Henry, McFadden and Donnacha Ryan for example

http://www.irishrugby.ie/news/14658.php

Why do you think those two won't be capped again?

 

[psychic duck]

How did Sexton not make North America tour despite doing so well in the 2009 semi final and final of the H Cup is beyond me until I realised who was the coach.

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

I rate Murray, Reddan, Boss and Marmion ahead of Marshall. McGrath will overtake him before too long also. Marshall is a good player who has had a couple of good seasons. He's a nice option off the bench for his province but I don't think he's much better than, say, Kieran Campbell who won a couple of caps in similar circumstances in 2005 before dropping from the scene.

Fitzpatrick is just too injury prone. He's almost 30 and has never been a regular for his province. I see the younger Stephen Archer, Jamie Hagan and Michael Bent moving ahead of him given another 12 months.

I remember that the Leinster contingent were held back due to the Heineken Cup final that year. To be fair, that's an impressive representation. Equally a lot of names on that list have fallen without trace.

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

How did Sexton not make North America tour despite doing so well in the 2009 semi final and final of the H Cup is beyond me until I realised who was the coach.

He was playing a Heineken Cup final a few hours before the Canada test.

 

[psychic duck]

Fitzpatrick is just too injury prone. He's almost 30 and has never been a regular for his province. I see the younger Stephen Archer, Jamie Hagan and Michael Bent moving ahead of him given another 12 months.

Bad news for Ireland if Archer is going to be their second choice. He's terrible. Bent by all accounts hasn't been great either. Hagan is the best out of that trio and I have no idea why Leinster displaced him for a worse player. It seems Schmidt has realised his error and now plays him above Bent, but too late and he left to London Irish where there is a possibility he could fall of the radar when he is the next best after Ross in my opinion. Good luck with Archer.

 

[munstermuffin]

Think everyone in Ireland can agree Archer has developed massively this last season but if you don't rate him fair enough. He's definitely ahead of Bent but isn't Ireland's 2nd choice as Deccie Fitz was and still is ahead of him in pecking order. Hagan quite possibly would too but that is all pending on how he's viewed now that he's overseas from next season. Snoop I agree re 9's and my view of Marshall is that while he's good I've heard some Ulster fans refer to him as 1 trick pony which is true in some ways. McGrath I can see breaking in to Leinster team next season for sure and won't be too long then until his first cap.

 

[munstermuffin]

Just to add in Paddy Butler deserved to go to in emerging squad but it seems Munster have withdrawn all under 24s from squads as I said I don't know reasons but surely Butler is deserving of been in a squad if available.

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

Think everyone in Ireland can agree Archer has developed massively this last season

Yeah, he's gone from abysmal to below average. The slight drop in BJ Botha's performances has also helped him close the gap on the Springbok for Munster. Archer's base level was so low that if he didn't make any improvement, serious questions would have to be asked. He's now around the level of Ronan Loughney. Not good enough for international rugby but another improvement to passable Pro 12 player isn't out of the question next season. Ireland's options at 3 are so bad that this may be good enough to have him benching behind Mike Ross.

 

[KAPman]

my ireland 15 for tour:

15: Felix Jones
14: Fergus McFadden
13: Darren Cave
12: Ian Madigan
11: Simon Zebo
10: Paddy Jackson
9: Kieran Marmion
1: Dave Kilcoyne.
2: Rory Best (c)
3: Jamie Hagan
4: Mike McCarthey
5: Dan Touhy
6: Ian Henderson
7: Tommy O'Donnell
8: Peter O'Mahoney

 

[munstermuffin]

Yeah, he's gone from abysmal to below average. The slight drop in BJ Botha's performances has also helped him close the gap on the Springbok for Munster. Archer's base level was so low that if he didn't make any improvement, serious questions would have to be asked. He's now around the level of Ronan Loughney. Not good enough for international rugby but another improvement to passable Pro 12 player isn't out of the question next season. Ireland's options at 3 are so bad that this may be good enough to have him benching behind Mike Ross.

Well I'd rate him slightly higher as in he will do as a reserve for HEC as in good for 10/15mins but to be fair no one ever said he's HEC standard (as regular starter) or even International but we haven't many options that are

 

[psychic duck]

Yeah, he's gone from abysmal to below average. The slight drop in BJ Botha's performances has also helped him close the gap on the Springbok for Munster. Archer's base level was so low that if he didn't make any improvement, serious questions would have to be asked. He's now around the level of Ronan Loughney. Not good enough for international rugby but another improvement to passable Pro 12 player isn't out of the question next season. Ireland's options at 3 are so bad that this may be good enough to have him benching behind Mike Ross.

I saw Archer live this season at the Liberty Stadium. I didn't see any evidence of his scrummaging being anything other than abysmal and that was the Ospreys weaker props playing. Dullonien said that even Scarlets got on top of Munster's scrum as well. He came off the bench against Italy and conceded a scrum penalty straight away IIRC. And Loughney is seriously crap as well btw, if he's around his level then he is still abysmal. Fitzpatrick, Hagan are both better easily.

 

[lynam1104]

Yes archer isn't very good in fact hes quite useless, so was Healy 4 years ago give him a bit of time he might go somewhere he might not. I think Hagan is well a ahead of him from a Leinster point of view it's some what frustrating that Conway and Hagan deiced to leave and start performing well around the same time. And KAPman I think that team is fairly spot on.

 

[munstermuffin]

Yes archer isn't very good in fact hes quite useless, so was Healy 4 years ago give him a bit of time he might go somewhere he might not. I think Hagan is well a ahead of him from a Leinster point of view it's some what frustrating that Conway and Hagan deiced to leave and start performing well around the same time. And KAPman I think that team is fairly spot on.

Add in Ross was desperate his first year with Leinster and look at him now. But look Archer wont be international class I see him every day and well its a fact but we lack options compared to other nations. Bent is a joke and Deccie Fitz is always injured. Hagan always had potential and was poor up until January when he started producing and I'd agree he'd be ahead of Archer on playing terms but he will probably loose out due to being in London next season. Might've been a smarter move to come south but best of luck to him.

 

[Peat]

I have to say, I agree with more or less every word Snoopy has to say about Deccie Fitz and Small Paul, until he starts listing the alternatives...

I'd like both to be replaced for Ulster by the end of next season - god knows how you guys must feel - but really would not be surprised if it doesn't happen.

 

[big ginger 8]

Apparently Henshaw will be at 13.