Ireland Summer Tour and Churchill Cup Squad

[monkeypigeon]

Well, interesting, now that 14 players will be off doing their Lions thing, who do we think will make up the Ireland team and Churchill Cup team? a great chance for the fringe players and those trying to prove a point to Declan Kidney.

Presumably a large part of the squad that plays in friendlies for the full team (against the USA and Canada) will also go on to be in the Churchill Cup with the A team a matter of days later which also on in the USA. Seems Kidney planned that one well.

Keep in mind that the Heineken Cup Final is on the same day as the first full team friendly, so either the Munster or the Leinster players will be missing. So with that in mind, the team for the official international tour will look very similar to the A team.

Share your views and opinions as to what you'd like to see from this summer tour and Churchill Cup!

 

[An Tarbh]

Going on the assumption that it'll be Munster and not Leinster in the final then I'd go for something like this.

15. Murphy, 14. Horgan, 13. D'Arcy, 12. Wallace, 11. Trimble, 10. Keatley, 9. Reddan, 1. Healy, 2. Best © 3. Ross, 4. Caldwell, 5. Casey, 6. Best, 7. O'Brien, 8. Wilson

If we do get the shock of the decade and Leinster are in action at Murrayfield then

15. Murphy, 14. Trimble, 13. Cave, 12. Wallace, 11. Dowling 10. Keatley, 9. Stringer, 1. Court, 2. Best ©, 3. Ross, 4. Caldwell, 5. Casey, 6. Best, 7. Ronan, 8. Leamy

 

[monkeypigeon]

Presuming Munster reach the Heineken Cup Final (which I think they will), I'd like to see the following team for the a matches:

1. Healy
2. Best
3. Mike Ross
4. Caldwell
5. Casey (forgot him for a sec)
6. Best
7. Jennings
8. Pollock/O'Brien

9. Reddan
10. Sexton (nice Practice for Leinster Next year we hope with that 9-10 combo)

11. Jonny Murphy
12. Darcy
13. Cave
14. Carr

15. Flash Geordan

But I suspect the likes of Geordan Murphy, Dempsey, Cullen etc will be allowed (told) stay at home for hols.

And Churchill Cup:

1. Healy
2. Cronin
3. Court
4. Caldwell
5. Ryan/Casey
6. Best
7. Ronan/O'Brien
8. Pollock/O'Brien

9. Reddan/O'Donoghue (that his name?)
10. Keatley/Humphries

11. Dowling/J. Murphy
12. Barry Murpjhy
13. Cave
14. Carr

15. Duffy

 

[An Tarbh]

well Murphy may well not be involved should Leicester cause an upset of their own against the Blues, left out Cullen and Jennings cause there's enough experience elsewhere which is why I'd like to see the likes of Ronan/O'Brien getting a run, Ryan is another option ahead of Caldwell.

 

[MunsterMan]

Tests:

1. Cian Healy (leinster)
2. Rory Best © (ulster)
3. Mike Ross (harlequins)
4. Ryan Caldwell (ulster)
5. Bob Casey (london irish)
6. Sean O'Brien (leinster)
7. Shane Jennings (leinster)
8. John Muldoon (connacht)
9. Eoin Reddan (london wasps)
10. Ian Keatley (connacht)
11. Jonne Murphy (leicester)
12. Paddy Wallace (ulster)
13. Gordan D'arcy (leinster)
14. Andrew Trimble (ulster)
15. Geordan Murphy (leicester)

16. Sean Cronin (connacht)
17. Tom Court (ulster)
18. Devin Toner (leinster)
19. Neil Best (northampton)
20. Frank Murphy (connacht)
21. Jonny Sexton (leinster)
22. Darren Cave (ulster)


CC:

1. Cian Healy
2. Sean Cronin
3. Mike Ross
4. Ryan Caldwell
5. Donnacha Ryan
6. Sean O'Brien
7. David Pollock
8. John Muldoon
9. Frank Murphy
10. Ian Keatley
11. Ian Dowling
12. James Downey
13. Barry Murphy/Darren Cave
14. Jonne Murphy
15. Denis Hurley

16. Denis Fogarty
17. Tom Court
18. Devin Toner
19. Billy Holland
20. Paul O'Donohoe
21. Jonatahn Sexton
22. Darren Cave/Barry Murphy

I'll do a side for the possible Tests if Leinster win in Croker later.

 

[An Tarbh]

I know it's a low key game but it'd still be good to see Wallace and D'Arcy getting a run together in case something happens to O'Driscoll rather than just throwing them together in the event of an injury.

 

[MunsterMan]

If Cuige Laighean do win, then I would go for

1. Court
2. Best ©
3. Ross
4. Caldwell
5. Ryan
6. Muldoon
7. Ronan
8. Leamy
9. Stringer
10. Keatley
11. Dowling
12. Wallace
13. B Murphy
14. Trimble
15. Murphy (Hurley if Leicester make the HEC final)

16. Cronin
17. Hurley
18. O'Donoghue
19. Pollock
20. Reddan
21. O'Connor/Humphries
22. Cave

 

[An Tarbh]

normally I'd say Dowling isn't up to international level but when you consider the likes of Anthony Horgan getting a cap you can't begrudge skinny a cap, even though you wouldn't want him playing a proper test given other current options.

 

[monkeypigeon]

I dunno why people aren't giving Cave more of a chance in what's basically a devolopment tour. Wallace is never gonna be an important fixture in the Ireland squad! Gice Cave a run in an internatonal! And I forgot that perhaps McFadden might be an option got the bench!

 

[MunsterMan]

Very harsh on Paddy and Dowling. Dowling is class, a huge part of Munster's game. Consistently good, always breaks the first tackle, always makes 10 metres, good hands, decent boot, solid under the high ball, good decision maker, just doesn't have the gas our other options do. Still a fine finisher if you can make room for him.

Paddy offers something completely different to our other options at 12, which is worth his place in the squad alone. Doesn't break the line like D'arcy does but he is much better at putting his teammates into space, better passer, kicker and a good defender. Worthy of a few more caps at the very least.

 

[An Tarbh]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Monkeypigeon @ Apr 21 2009, 10:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

I dunno why people aren't giving Cave more of a chance in what's basically a devolopment tour. Wallace is never gonna be an important fixture in the Ireland squad! Gice Cave a run in an internatonal! And I forgot that perhaps McFadden might be an option got the bench![/b]

Wallace will be around until the next world cup and unless injured likely to be remain involved in the setup so no harm in giving him and D'Arcy a run together.

 

[up'n'under]

I was just going to make a thread about this but it looks like you guys beat me to it. The only thing is though if no test players are involved in the test matches then it is kind of redundant to have the A squad play two tests then turn around and play Canada again 2 weeks later.Plus that would make 5 matches in a little over a months time, this after concluding a long club season.I can't imagine club managers would be too psyched about that.

 

[cyRil]

Johnny O'Connor must be wondering where it all went wrong...

 

[feicarsinn]

well going to connacht as a senior player is never a good idea.

I'd expect to see Ireland mix things up in this tour. Odds are that, barring injuries, the likes of horgan arent going to get another crack at the Ireland jersey. Trimble maybe still has time to turn it around but hes got alot of work ahead of him. Mike Ross and Cian Healy have to get a good bit of game time here if they're going to push forward as players and we really need them to because there arent any other obvious replacements for hayes and horan. errr what else? oh yeah I hope sexton finally gets a cap seeing as hes probably going to be leinster 10 next year. In fact, I wouldn't mind seeing all 3 potential 10s but there may not be enough time. Think it's important to give games to Ronan Cave and if hes available Johny Murphy also maybe an appearance from fionn carr, just to see how he holds up with some decent players around him

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

It's very tough to guess what the Ireland team for the summer tour will be. On top of the Lions, Declan Kidney will be without the entire Leinster or Munster squad and possibly a couple of Leicester players. Taking Lions and all players potentially affected by the Heineken Cup final out of the equation and you're left with the following likely starters:

15. Gavin Duffy
14. Fionn Carr
13. Darren Cave
12. Paddy Wallace
11. Andrew Trimble
10. Ian Keatley
9. Eoin Reddan
1. Tom Court
2. Rory Best
3. Mike Ross
4. Ryan Caldwell
5. Bob Casey
6. John Muldoon
7. Neil Best
8. Roger Wilson

David Pollock, Ian Humphreys and James Downey could push hard for inclusion in the above team with Sean Cronin as an able backup hooker.

You can subtract some of Ian Dowling, Barry Murphy, Peter Stringer, Mick O'Driscoll, Donnacha Ryan, Niall Ronan, Denis Leamy, Cian Healy, Bernard Jackman, Leo Cullen (who may tour due to his leadership alone), Shane Jennings, Sean O'Brien, Jonny Sexton, Fergus McFadden, Gordon D'arcy, Geordan Murphy and Johne Murphy from the potential starting XV versus Canada due to Heineken Cup commitments. I think Marcus Horan, John Hayes, Mal O'Kelly and Girvan Dempsey will be left at home during the summer due to being rested or no longer being deemed good enough. Shane Horgan may also fall into this category though I think he'll be called up for at least one test since there's a lack of viable wingers around.

While the team versus Canada is tough to predict, the team for the USA game isn't quite so difficult. In my opinion Declan Kidney won't want to dish out caps to players unless they really deserve it. As such, I think we'll see this:

15. Geordan Murphy
14. Horgan
13. D'arcy
12. Wallace
11. Dowling
10. Sexton
9. Stringer
1. Healy
2. Rory Best
3. Ross
4. O'Driscoll
5. Casey
6. Neil Best
7. Jennings
8. Leamy
Subs: Jackman, Court, Caldwell, Wilson, Reddan, Humphreys, Barry Murphy

While I'd love to see Sean Cronin, Sean O'Brien and Darren Cave start a test, I don't think they're ready yet. All represent the future of Irish rugby and will be given their chance on the Churchill Cup team. Players like Andrew Trimble should miss out due to total lack of form. I don't think Ian Dowling is an international class wing but you know what you'll get with him, he won't let you down and he's playing far better than most other challengers out wide.

 

[An Tarbh]

I'd like to see Ryan get a run alongside Casey in the Canadian match.

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (An Tarbh @ Apr 23 2009, 04:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

I'd like to see Ryan get a run alongside Casey in the Canadian match.[/b]

The problem I have with Donnacha Ryan at the moment is that he's 4th choice second row with Munster and also gets shunted into the back row with regularity. He's a very talented player but needs more gametime in his preferred position in my opinion. That's why I'd go for Ryan Caldwell ahead of him. I think Donnacha Ryan is better served playing in the Churchill Cup (alongside Devin Toner or Trevor Hogan) until he regains form.

I agree that Bob Casey deserves a chance. He's played pretty well at a decent level of competition for quite a while now.

 

[An Tarbh]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (snoopy snoopy dog dog @ Apr 23 2009, 05:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (An Tarbh @ Apr 23 2009, 04:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'd like to see Ryan get a run alongside Casey in the Canadian match.[/b]

The problem I have with Donnacha Ryan at the moment is that he's 4th choice second row with Munster and also gets shunted into the back row with regularity. He's a very talented player but needs more gametime in his preferred position in my opinion. That's why I'd go for Ryan Caldwell ahead of him. I think Donnacha Ryan is better served playing in the Churchill Cup (alongside Devin Toner or Trevor Hogan) until he regains form.

I agree that Bob Casey deserves a chance. He's played pretty well at a decent level of competition for quite a while now.
[/b][/quote]

yeah but this is the type of game where you can give him a run in his preferred position plus Kidney has Caldwell to fall back on who should be starting in the US game the week previous.

 

[monkeypigeon]

I doubt that the players who played in the Heineken Cup who won't be in the A squad will be flown over for one full Inyternational match match. By the time they leave, land and get passed jet-lag it'd be squad selection day.

So either Stringer, Leamy won't be heading over at all or Horgan, Dempsey, Darcy, Cullen if it's Leinster in the final.

 

[Thingimubob]

Surely a few of the succesful Irish u20's team will get a chance in the Churchill Cup team? With quite a lot of the regulars in the A team stepping up to the main team, should be a good opportunity to give the youngsters a chance.