Ireland to host 2023 Rugby world cup ?

[Leonormous Boozer]

I've played in a number of inter county grounds in my time within the GAA, an awful lot of them are near third world in standard. You see the stands on the TV, but that's only the surface. Mediocre transport links, poor facilities for supporters, inadequate press facilities, really poor quality changing rooms and team preparation facilities. The list goes on and on. And that's in some of the more reputable grounds in the country.

Regarding your questions, is the standard we hold a stadium to really based on how long it's been since some one was killed there? I mean really? Come on.

Which grounds out of interest Feic? How many of them would be in consideration for a world cup?

 

[Amiga500]

I've played in a number of inter county grounds in my time within the GAA, an awful lot of them are near third world in standard. You see the stands on the TV, but that's only the surface. Mediocre transport links, poor facilities for supporters, inadequate press facilities, really poor quality changing rooms and team preparation facilities. The list goes on and on. And that's in some of the more reputable grounds in the country.

I've played in quite a few myself.

- Transport links: They seem to have survived to this point with big crowds going through the gate on at least an annual basis... so people obviously have been able to get to and fro the ground before...
- Supporter facilities & changing rooms: Some are grand, some are dumps. Many of the dumps have since been renovated, are in the midst of renovating, or are scheduled to undergo renovation.
- Press: Meh. They don't all need luxury studios. Sky have managed to broadcast the HEC from Ravenhill before the redevelopment... Jim Neilly used to commentate from a portacabin on the top of the old terrace.... if they can manage that, anything is possible!
- Team prep: Some of the grounds have adjoining pitches, some don't.


You seem to think that rugby grounds are comparative hotels... from what grounds I've been to, they are much of a muchness!

Regarding your questions, is the standard we hold a stadium to really based on how long it's been since some one was killed there? I mean really? Come on.

I mean really, do come on. If the grounds are supposedly dangerous and "would fail most health and safety regulations" then where is the evidence?

Do people actually think the GAA allow crowds into grounds that have failed H&S inspections? Or do they think the H&S inspectors dander along, have a wee look with the county secretary and say, "aye, she's grand there, now where's me ticket for that 3rd Sunday in Sept" **wink, wink, nudge, nudge**....

The grounds are by and by large grand. Aspects need attention, but the solutions are neither overly expensive or overly time sensitive.

 

[Rumpi]

I've played in quite a few myself.

- Transport links: They seem to have survived to this point with big crowds going through the gate on at least an annual basis... so people obviously have been able to get to and fro the ground before...
- Supporter facilities & changing rooms: Some are grand, some are dumps. Many of the dumps have since been renovated, are in the midst of renovating, or are scheduled to undergo renovation.
- Press: Meh. They don't all need luxury studios. Sky have managed to broadcast the HEC from Ravenhill before the redevelopment... Jim Neilly used to commentate from a portacabin on the top of the old terrace.... if they can manage that, anything is possible!
- Team prep: Some of the grounds have adjoining pitches, some don't.


You seem to think that rugby grounds are comparative hotels... from what grounds I've been to, they are much of a muchness!




I mean really, do come on. If the grounds are supposedly dangerous and "would fail most health and safety regulations" then where is the evidence?

Do people actually think the GAA allow crowds into grounds that have failed H&S inspections? Or do they think the H&S inspectors dander along, have a wee look with the county secretary and say, "aye, she's grand there, now where's me ticket for that 3rd Sunday in Sept" **wink, wink, nudge, nudge**....

The grounds are by and by large grand. Aspects need attention, but the solutions are neither overly expensive or overly time sensitive.

One of my favourite grounds for matches is Parnell park, for club & county hurling/gaelic, it's fairly basic to be fair with one covered seated stand, two covered terraces & uncovered terrace, still a cracking little venue, but basic enough.

 

[munstermuffin]

They aren't.

They are safe, they are large and they are more than fit for the job. They are sub-standard in your head because you believe them to be.

Question 1 - when is the last time someone was seriously injured at a GAA ground as a result of a deficiency of the ground itself?

Question 2 - when is the last time someone suffered death or grevious injury as a result of an inability to have immediate treatment of the required standard at a GAA ground?


The biggest obstacle, as mentioned in posts above, is the pitch size.

3 Deaths last year at Munster GAA grounds due to lack of treatment in attendance.
Regards injuries Limerick GAA have 4 people with claims in after Munster Final alone.

But if you think GAA stadiums aren't sub-standard to RWC requirement I'd suggest you look up what is required.
Name 1 GAA stadium that has adequate medical facilities outside Croke Park.
I'm not 100% is all stadia required to be all seating now but there's another issue.
Issues such as corporate areas also an issue.

Can I ask you considering the huge fees the GAA have said will be charged, the profits the IRB have to get and all the refurbishments that will be required (remember everything that is updated now in last 2-4 years will be old by 2023), and competing with soccer and local GAA championships. Where will IRFU make profit?
Will they be able to sell the large quantity of tickets for games involving the lesser nations and not have the same issues a rugby mad country like New Zealand had?

 

[munstermuffin]

I've played in quite a few myself.

- Transport links: They seem to have survived to this point with big crowds going through the gate on at least an annual basis... so people obviously have been able to get to and fro the ground before...
- Supporter facilities & changing rooms: Some are grand, some are dumps. Many of the dumps have since been renovated, are in the midst of renovating, or are scheduled to undergo renovation.
- Press: Meh. They don't all need luxury studios. Sky have managed to broadcast the HEC from Ravenhill before the redevelopment... Jim Neilly used to commentate from a portacabin on the top of the old terrace.... if they can manage that, anything is possible!
- Team prep: Some of the grounds have adjoining pitches, some don't.


You seem to think that rugby grounds are comparative hotels... from what grounds I've been to, they are much of a muchness!




I mean really, do come on. If the grounds are supposedly dangerous and "would fail most health and safety regulations" then where is the evidence?

Do people actually think the GAA allow crowds into grounds that have failed H&S inspections? Or do they think the H&S inspectors dander along, have a wee look with the county secretary and say, "aye, she's grand there, now where's me ticket for that 3rd Sunday in Sept" **wink, wink, nudge, nudge**....

The grounds are by and by large grand. Aspects need attention, but the solutions are neither overly expensive or overly time sensitive.

@Cmac having played/been physio at Thurles, Gaelic Grounds, Pearse Stadium, Fitzgearld stadium, Portlaoise and Pairc Ui Chaoimh. I'd say none are even near required state.

@Amiga - The transport survive for GAA but consider all different nationalities and tours with more organization in routes been vital.
Facilities I've touched on.
It's actually a requirement now that press areas must be of a certain size and standard. Also big difference between a HEC pool game with 1 network showing and a RWC where there could be a number of stations from around world broadcasting. Also most GAA stadiums have press area for 10 newspaper journalists, 2 radio broadcasters and 2 tv. In RWC 11 each game had 10 tv broadcasters 50-60 radio stations and also about same newspapers. For a RWC places like Thomond would even need to upgrade.
Just checked also security for these games requires manpower that in 2007 French union stated was a massive cost.
GAA aren't subject to 10% of the H&S rugby stadiums are. They are not an international sport and Croke Park failed 3 inspections before rugby and soccer moved in. 1 was based on capacity GAA allow in to Hill 16 which resulted for some games having the Hill seated.
And if you think a bill for IRFU wouldn't be expensive I'd love to meet the tradesmen you know!

 

[Rumpi]

3 Deaths last year at Munster GAA grounds due to lack of treatment in attendance.
Regards injuries Limerick GAA have 4 people with claims in after Munster Final alone.

3 deaths? You have a link for that, which proves the deaths are due to lack of medical facilities???

There are always claims after pitch invasions, even in Croke park, which disproves your point. that is why the GAA is trying to stop pitch invasions. Whether these claims are genuine is debatable.

Hear stories from people who were in nz and by all accounts some of the grounds are every bit as basic as some GAA grounds.

 

[Amiga500]

3 Deaths last year at Munster GAA grounds due to lack of treatment in attendance.

Are you talking about club games?

Regards injuries Limerick GAA have 4 people with claims in after Munster Final alone.

From climbing on to the pitch... not quite "as a result of a deficiency of the ground itself" is it?

But if you think GAA stadiums aren't sub-standard to RWC requirement I'd suggest you look up what is required.

You keep going on about these medical facilities.

If professional rugby needed something verging on a surgery built in, then I wonder why there are two ambulances parked at Ravenhill for every game...

I'm not 100% is all stadia required to be all seating now but there's another issue.

Not required.

Issues such as corporate areas also an issue.

That would be an issue for provincial grounds.

Can I ask you considering the huge fees the GAA have said will be charged

http://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/other/2...-in-of-national-interest/?utm_source=NewsWhip

GAA president Liam O’Neill has said that Central Council’s decision to back the IRFU’s Rugby World Cup 2023 bid was of ‘national interest.’


At next year’s Congress, the Council will seek permission to use up to six GAA grounds as part of the IRFU bid to stage the 2023 competition.

Croke Park, which would stage the final if the bid was successful, has already been made available to other sports, but a change of rules are needed to make the other grounds available.

The other grounds are thought to be Semple Stadium, Pairc Ui Chaoimh, Limerick’s Gaelic Grounds, Fitzgerald Stadium and Casement Park, which is due to be redeveloped.

O’Neill told the Independent: "In an organisation of our size, you're going to get different views but it was significant that it (World Cup proposal) was passed unanimously by Central Council.


"The organisation has always been willing to put the country first. We've always been willing to put the national interest ahead of our own narrow interest and we were proud to do it the last time (opening Croke Park)."

Where have they said they are going to charge extortionate rates?

Will they be able to sell the large quantity of tickets for games involving the lesser nations and not have the same issues a rugby mad country like New Zealand had?

Let me see... New Zealand, a country with a population of 4 million... located 1300 miles from the nearest large populace.

Ireland. population 5.5 million. Located less than 130 miles from 3 of the largest rugby countries on the planet...

And if you think a bill for IRFU wouldn't be expensive I'd love to meet the tradesmen you know!

You keep getting hung up on the IRFU having to pay for everything!

You think the govt wouldn't leap at the chance to get billions coming into the economy?


Small-minded. Very very small-minded.

Do you think all the Kiwi stadiums had room for 10 tv broadcasters, the 50 odd radio stations and 50 odd newsies?

GAA aren't subject to 10% of the H&S rugby stadiums are.

hahaha. Ravenhill is about as safe as casement. That is, Casement as it is today!

 

[munstermuffin]

You keep getting hung up on the IRFU having to pay for everything!

You think the govt wouldn't leap at the chance to get billions coming into the economy?


Small-minded. Very very small-minded.

Do you think all the Kiwi stadiums had room for 10 tv broadcasters, the 50 odd radio stations and 50 odd newsies?


hahaha. Ravenhill is about as safe as casement. That is, Casement as it is today!

Well I'll start regards deaths. Yes all club games 1 death being due to no trained personnel for defibulator. And pitch invasions were claims.

Yes all Kiwi stadiums had the required broadcasting according to Ryle Nuggent of RTE when he did an article before and was there.
It was on Examiner in November that quoted Simon Moroney (Chairman of Munster GAA) as saying that the GAA understood that they had to put this spectacle out in front of their beliefs and encouraged members to approve when vote would come but that they would need to use the €1-2m they make to really invest in grassroots who may loose out.
Also they'd only approve it if Croke Park was to host the Final and was showcased.

Regards Casement park point. So what if it's as safe as Ravenhill that means it's up to standard what does that prove? Just simply said GAA H&S standards aren't near as bad as Worldwide sports.

Also on ticket sales for lesser games what exactly has population to do with it?
Your saying people will fly in from UK to seeFiji vs Romania in a game yea. Pay €40 or so.

And no IRFU don't have to pay for everything but I'd expect they'd have to pay a lot more than they're in a position to

 

[Amiga500]

Right, I think I've prob said more than enough on this thread and would probably only be repeating myself from here on.

I think it can be done here (in Ireland) without extortionate spending on making facilities ready. Others don't. Fair enough and I'll leave it at that.

 

[munstermuffin]

Just on this 2 points from GAA meeting that gave go ahead for bid for RWC to be held in Ireland:
* The GAA fully supports an attempt by Ireland to host the Rugby World Cup because of the tremendous boost it would give the country in terms of tourism revenue and exposure Croke Park will receive host a World Cup Final.
* The GAA fully defends its rights to private property and will charge the market value for rental of the stadia.

 

[munstermuffin]

Right, I think I've prob said more than enough on this thread and would probably only be repeating myself from here on.

I think it can be done here (in Ireland) without extortionate spending on making facilities ready. Others don't. Fair enough and I'll leave it at that.

Ok and look if it can I'd be first to be delighted I'm wrong and would love Ireland to host it but not at a cost of struggling for years after.
Regards Ticket issue can I just show an article of what I'm comparing my worries too and that the pressure from IRB is tough. Even English have issues and are trying to oversell big games to balance lack of sales in small games.

Ireland's Rugby World Cup tickets to cost up to €300 as other games to cost as little as €8
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The All Blacks will defend their World Cup crown next year
MITCH PHILLIPS – 27 NOVEMBER 2013

IRELAND will open its 2015 Rugby World Cup campaign against Canada in Cardiff with a Saturday afternoon kick-off on September 19 next year.

But organisers of the tournament have already come in for criticism with the news that some of the tickets for Ireland's game will cost €300.

Organisers of the tournament in Britain today revealed their strategy for the sale of 2.3 million seats, with tickets for some matches will be available for just €8 for children and €18 for adults.

The cheapest price for Ireland matches will be €60 for adults against Canada while the dearest for that match is €210. But the most expensive ticket is for the clash with France at €300.

Ireland's opening opponents in Pool D were already known but the dates and times came in this morning's announcement. The second game is a 5pm start against a European qualifier at Wembley on September 27, we face Italy at the Olympic Stadium on October 4 and France in Cardiff on October 11.

Forty one of the 48 matches will have child tickets at stg£7, while the best ticket at the final will cost £715 (€850).

Kick-off times were also revealed, and the Twickenham final on Saturday October 31 will be a 5pm start, as will both semis, also at Twickenham. The tournament's opening match, between England and an Oceania qualifier on September 18, is an 8pm kickoff.

New Zealand will begin their defence against Argentina at Wembley on September 20 at 5pm.

Tickets will go on sale in 2014.

"We want the tournament to be a celebration of rugby, encouraging more people to support and enjoy the game," England 2015 chief executive Debbie Jevans said.

"We have a range of ticket prices for every budget - for fans and families who want to come to one of the world's greatest sports events.

"Our ticketing programme is built for fans who support the game week in week out, whilst encouraging a new generation of rugby fans through Rugby World Cup 2015."

The availability of cheap tickets for the tournament will be a relief for fans.

England internationals are usually pricey with child tickets priced at £41.50 and adults at £83 for the match against Argentina at Twickenham.

 

[Rumpi]

Well I'll start regards deaths. Yes all club games 1 death being due to no trained personnel for defibulator. And pitch invasions were claims.

So its fair to say they're completely irrelevant to this conversation.

 

[munstermuffin]

So its fair to say they're completely irrelevant to this conversation.

In 1 way yes but another no. Depends how you look at it

 

[William18]

Thing is everyone has their own stadium for requirements. GAA will never abandon Croke Park for New Stadium they don't own.
Dublin GAA have Croker and Parnell Park while we don't play enough home internationals in rugby or football to split venues.
Limerick GAA have invested too much in to Gaelic Grounds and well Munster will never leave Thomond Park.

Like William I understand your views but politics in sporting bodies here is 100+ years old and them issues will never ever be agreed and that's before the squibble of funding. All you have to understand is the history of GAA to see it'll be a no-go

That's fine but I think that means you will never host a major international sporting event. Certainly, I couldn't support an Irish world cup with current sradiums.

 

[Rumpi]

In 1 way yes but another no. Depends how you look at it

Any links to reports about these deaths? I find it hard to believe that three club players died in one year due to lack of medical facilities. That would be huge news.

The rugby World Cup won't be taking place in Ireland without using/adapting some GAA stadia, frankly i don't know why you are being so weird about it, hopefully the IRFU are more open minded.

 

[munstermuffin]

Any links to reports about these deaths? I find it hard to believe that three club players died in one year due to lack of medical facilities. That would be huge news.

The rugby World Cup won't be taking place in Ireland without using/adapting some GAA stadia, frankly i don't know why you are being so weird about it, hopefully the IRFU are more open minded.

Never said they were all players. Check GAA site and each provincial council notes. Regards the hosting of World Cup I'd be delighted at hosting it but not at a cost of going deep in debt.
England France New Zealand Australia and France all have a lot of rugby stadiums and pro leagues to ease the stadium and perpetration issues as well as training bases etc. I'm been realistic but open to solutions. But as I showed from GAA congress notes they want to be payed fair market value for stadiums. So I know Garth Brooks concerts are netting GAA €3.87m. So if that's divided by 5 days then that's €774k per day. Now the official allowed attendances for last time there were 82250. The IRB want set profits too that they must receive. So basically if you are shelling out at least €400k per stadia per match in rent then wouldn't that give you a huge disadvantage in a Union that is desperate for money as is. Provinces struggle to sign overseas players due to cuts and basically I don't want to host a World Cup if it's at the cost of provinces funds etc been cut. It's great been owned by IRFU in a lot of areas but here is when you envy teams in France etc. because the Union can splash money and it won't effect the privately owned clubs