Ireland World Cup 2019 Thread aka "Quarter Final 4"

[munstermuffin]

Alpha that's a weak excuse

Irish, Scots & Japanese are the only Rugby nations I know of who go out of their way to
import SA, Kiwis players for example with explicit aim of making them for their "Adopted Nation"

This is an abuse of the rules Weasel words are not going to cut it

Georgia SA Argentina Fiji Russia etc don't import Mercenaries/ 2nd rate players

How about Irish, Scots & Japanese Rugby Unions fix their act up on this matter

You do know New Zealand and England have a much higher rate of imports. Just targeted at earlier level. And Aus is in mix too.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

targeted

 

[Groundhog]

Boycott USA rugby. 4 Irish guys in their team as well as a few English and Saffers. I am literally shaking right now.

 

[munstermuffin]

Hey wasn't the rock at a summer camp with Billy V when they were babies

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Hey wasn't the rock at a summer camp with Billy V when they were babies

Hey wasn't the rock at a summer camp with Billy V when they were babies

Name one player England has "Targeted".

No doubt we've got our fair share of imports, but none we've ever gone chasing.

 

[BobbyM]

Alpha that's a weak excuse

Irish, Scots & Japanese are the only Rugby nations I know of who go out of their way to
import SA, Kiwis players for example with explicit aim of making them for their "Adopted Nation"

This is an abuse of the rules Weasel words are not going to cut it

Georgia SA Argentina Fiji Russia etc don't import Mercenaries/ 2nd rate players

How about Irish, Scots & Japanese Rugby Unions fix their act up on this matter

hbijbjon You keep talking about South Africa as a country that don't important mercenaries / "2nd rate" players. I pointed out previously on the transfers thread a number of players where they have done exactly that. Why do you persist with this lie?

And to be clear in Russia, Georgia and Fiji the game of rugby is by in large amateur so there is little to "import" to, as I am sure you appreciate.

 

[hbijbjon]

Name one player England has "Targeted".

No doubt we've got our fair share of imports, but none we've ever gone chasing.

You'll be waiting a long time....

There is a massive difference btw a child of immigrants playing for their adopted nation whether by birth or being raised there ala Vunipola Joe Coks etc AND someone like Pierre Schoeman, Josh Strauss Jared Payne etc with the explicit aim of them playing Int'l rugby They're fake "Irish" & "Scots"

No amount of obfuscation, semantics and whataboutery is going to change those facts

I can understand why Irish & Scots fans are embarrassed by such grubby practises

 

[hbijbjon]

hbijbjon You keep talking about South Africa as a country that don't important mercenaries / "2nd rate" players. I pointed out previously on the transfers thread a number of players where they have done exactly that. Why do you persist with this lie?

And to be clear in Russia, Georgia and Fiji the game of rugby is by in large amateur so there is little to "import" to, as I am sure you appreciate.

You've provided a handful of names for Springboks in Pro Era
The exception to the rule including one who essentially fled a failed state in Zimbabwe

No evidence of systemo play Test Rugby

I'm aware of the Amateur status of these rugby nations but that doesn't change the fact
these countries wouldn't allow their Int'l team to be diluted with Mercenaries & 2nd rate players cheating with importing Mercenarcy players

 

[hbijbjon]

Let the facts do the talking. Compare Ireland with other nations. No point talking about it without showing evidence comparing Ireland to other teams.

Where are your facts......

France Japan Ireland & Scotland AFAIK are the only Tier 1/2 rugby nations that explicitly import
mercenaries & 2nd rate players with goal of them playing for their adopted Nation

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Where are your facts......

My last post which you just disliked and ignored?

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

I'm aware of the Amateur status of these rugby nations but that doesn't change the fact
these countries wouldn't allow their Int'l team to be diluted with Mercenaries & 2nd rate playersic cheating with importing Mercenaries player t

This here is utter bollix too, I'm sure you know that though.

 

[BobbyM]

You've provided a handful of names for Springboks in Pro Era
The exception to the rule including one who essentially fled a failed state in Zimbabwe

There are more players too I could name. Corne Krige for example not born in SA. How many more examples before you concede that your "rule" actually isn't one and in many of these cases the rationale for moving countries (better life etc) is exactly the same rationale put forward for people moving to play rugby in other tier 1 countries?

I'm aware of the Amateur status of these rugby nations but that doesn't change the fact
these countries wouldn't allow their Int'l team to be diluted with Mercenaries & 2nd rate players cheating with importing Mercenarcy players

Ok, but you realise you have nothing to back that up with? What you've provided is a blind assertion that is not demonstrable, and I would suggest is a "stretch".

To demonstrate this stretch, I look at a more "professional" sport in one of your examples, namely football in Russia. You'll note in recent years the increasing number of players born in Brazil who are representing Russia at football. This suggests that a nation like Russia, when they can offer a quality of life package to people from poorer countries, will do so.

Thanks for playing hbijbjon

 

[profitius]

Where are your facts......

France Japan Ireland & Scotland AFAIK are the only Tier 1/2 rugby nations that explicitly import
mercenaries & 2nd rate players with goal of them playing for their adopted Nation

It's up to you to provide evidence.

 

[munstermuffin]

Name one player England has "Targeted".

No doubt we've got our fair share of imports, but none we've ever gone chasing.

Name 1 that the IRFU went targetting?

 

[munstermuffin]

You'll be waiting a long time....

There is a massive difference btw a child of immigrants playing for their adopted nation whether by birth or being raised there ala Vunipola Joe Coks etc AND someone like Pierre Schoeman, Josh Strauss Jared Payne etc with the explicit aim of them playing Int'l rugby They're fake "Irish" & "Scots"

No amount of obfuscation, semantics and whataboutery is going to change those facts

I can understand why Irish & Scots fans are embarrassed by such grubby practises

What are the facts by the way. That a player not born in the country they play for.
Has every team not got a few of them? Just because they go earlier to the UK or New Zealand for better education doesn't hide the facts they are still imports.

 

[munstermuffin]

Where are your facts......

France Japan Ireland & Scotland AFAIK are the only Tier 1/2 rugby nations that explicitly import
mercenaries & 2nd rate players with goal of them playing for their adopted Nation

This shows how uneducated you are on the whole thing. French clubs hate the Union and they certainly do not buy any player with a view of the national team.

Also look up guys like Nathan Hughes, Marlon Yarde also Wales and Toby Faletau even. No they weren't targeted not that I believe many others were but if you pull your finger out you'd know that it is all over. Many pacific islanders prefer to play with New Zealand as 1 cap is commercially worth a hell of a lot more to them than loads for a Tonga or Samoa etc. Isa Nacewa spoke very well on this in the past I believe.

So as I say if you are going to spread I suppose a bit of crap then maybe educate yourself. I would also ask how Italy targeted Ian McKinley. A lad that was partially blind and went to Italy to assist in coaching. Then through scientific breakthroughs got back up to a level of playing and worked hard. Lived and earned his 2nd chance in Italy. And wanted to play for them.

 

[munstermuffin]

You've provided a handful of names for Springboks in Pro Era
The exception to the rule including one who essentially fled a failed state in Zimbabwe

No evidence of systemo play Test Rugby

I'm aware of the Amateur status of these rugby nations but that doesn't change the fact
these countries wouldn't allow their Int'l team to be diluted with Mercenaries & 2nd rate players cheating with importing Mercenarcy players

Can I ask who in Ireland was targetted to play international rugby.

Payne was signed by Ulster as a back up 15 originally. Not a 13.
Stander was signed by Munster and wasn't evenm known by IRFU. Shaun Payne was the man who recommended him to us.
Aki was signed as he wanted out of New Zealand for personal reasons and up to about 6months before he was capped refused to entertain the idea of Ireland. Connacht had to pay his full wages without IRFU help.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Name 1 that the IRFU went targetting?

I didn't say you did, you're the one making the accusation.

 

[munstermuffin]

I didn't say you did, you're the one making the accusation.

Ok excuse the word targeting more that players arrive for better life.

 

[hbijbjon]

There are more players too I could name. Corne Krige for example not born in SA. How many more examples before you concede that your "rule" actually isn't one and in many of these cases the rationale for moving countries (better life etc) is exactly the same rationale put forward for people moving to play rugby in other tier 1 countries?


Ok, but you realise you have nothing to back that up with? What you've provided is a blind assertion that is not demonstrable, and I would suggest is a "stretch".

To demonstrate this stretch, I look at a more "professional" sport in one of your examples, namely football in Russia. You'll note in recent years the increasing number of players born in Brazil who are representing Russia at football. This suggests that a nation like Russia, when they can offer a quality of life package to people from poorer countries, will do so.

Thanks for playing hbijbjon

Again playing fast & loose with the facts Krige was born in Zambia but was educated in SA, played his
club rugby in SA Also played & captained the Boks Krige is South African
That isn't negated by the place of his birth

That is very different from the likes of WP Nel Josh Strauss Alan Nell etc who have no connection to Scotland
whatsoever They're the personification of Mercenaries in Int'l Rugby


Your last point re. Russian Soccer is laughable Comparing the two sports is silly for many reasons
Russian team has been garbage for decades save for 1 tournament in 2008
They've comprised to improve their lot Not popular to say the least