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Irish Rugby - The Isolation Years

big ginger 8

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Fixtures:
2020 6N

Ireland vs Italy 24/10/20
France vs Ireland 31/10/20

2020 8N
Ireland vs Wales 13/11/20
England vs Ireland 21/11/20
Ireland vs Georgia 29/11/20
Ireland vs TBC 5/12/20

Presuming it will be one squad for the remaining Six Nations fixtures and another for the Eight Nations. Would imagine we'll go fairly full strength for the Six Nations since there's still a chance we can win it but would hope since world rankings don't matter for WC seedings we'll see some rotation for the 8N. Not sure about some injuries but will have a stab at what I'd like to see in a wider training squad at the moment. Not purposely in any starting order.

Loosehead: Kilcoyne, Healy, Loughman, O'Sullivan - Very worrisome position at the moment. Not sure on Kilcoyne's injury. Someone needs to stand up hence why I've thrown in two youngish guys. If we feel we need solidity at the position could just throw in McGrath. Cronin's a bit meh.

Hooker: Kelleher, Herring, Marshall - either Marshall or Cronin anyway, giving it to the younger guy. I like Heffernan but we already have the low ceiling guy there in Herring. Kelleher should start due to his ceiling. He got some flack for the lineout in the Pro 14 final but think some of it was unfair and his looseplay and scrummaging makes him worth persisting with.

Tighthead: Furlong, Porter, O'Toole - Furlong and Porter do currently have injury statuses that are up in the air but if they're fit they're our guys, though I would have Porter starting ahead of Furlong at the moment. If not fit any of Ryan, Bealham and Moore could provide adequate replacement and would probably leapfrog O'Toole who's still a bit raw.

Lock: Ryan, Henderson, Baird, Beirne, Kleyn - Baird has to make his debut. He has rare traits that we've been lacking the last few years. Would love himself or Beirne to get a go at 6 at some stage.

Backrow: Doris, Stander, Conan, VDF, Connors, Deegan - Very Leinster dominated but that's the way the talent is spread at the minute. POM will most likely be in the squad and there's some good arguments for him being in it but he shouldn't be in the 23. By the sounds of it Deegan may be at risk.

Scrumhalves: Gibson-Park, Marmion, Casey - Yikes. Not sure about current status of Murray's injury but understand he's in doubt for the 6N games. Marmion just being back from injury isn't ideal either, though there's a few weeks to get up and running obviously. Casey needs to get involved in the squad. His size will always be a limitation but his quality of service is possibly already the best in Ireland, if he gets some more consistency. McGrath needs to rediscover his pre-lockdown form with Leinster.

Outhalves: Sexton, R. Byrne, Carty, H. Byrne (apprentice) - I know some people want to be the one to correctly call Sexton's career as over but he's still head and shoulders above every option. I know TABby wants Madigan but I'd rather not. I don't think Ross or Carty are the answer for various reasons so hope Harry, Healy, Lowry and Johnston get time with their provinces.

Centres: Ringrose, Henshaw, Aki, Hume, Farrell - Hume deserves a go. Would love to give a playmaking option a go but Frawley is probably the most advanced there and he's probably not there yet, particularly with that nasty injury yesterday. Hume looks a talent.

Backthree: Conway, Lowe, Stockdale, Larmour, Keenan, Daly - There's a lot guys who are sameish at the moment without anyone really putting their hands up. Keenan and Daly are probably the form players at the moment. Earls and Lyttle probably both have some argument to be included. Pity Baloucoune is injured.

Including Harry Byrne there's 39 in that squad so there will probably be another player or two squeezed in. Probably POM and Earls. Hope the trend of apprentice players does continue. I only designated Harry as such but there's a few guys around the provinces who could be good shouts for it.
 

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I'd say Murray will be in the frame for Six Nations by all accounts. Van Graan has said he might be available for our home opener as could Kilcoyne.
 

big ginger 8

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If Murray’s fit with game time under his belt than I’d have him in and Casey as an apprentice.
 

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Not optimistic at this point. The squad isn't great, and some positions are serious worries. Loosehead and scrumhalf are big problems. If you gave me competitive losses against England and France and wins in the other games I'd probably take it.
Fixtures:
2020 6N

Ireland vs Italy 24/10/20
France vs Ireland 31/10/20

2020 8N
Ireland vs Wales 13/11/20
England vs Ireland 21/11/20
Ireland vs Georgia 29/11/20
Ireland vs TBC 5/12/20

Presuming it will be one squad for the remaining Six Nations fixtures and another for the Eight Nations. Would imagine we'll go fairly full strength for the Six Nations since there's still a chance we can win it but would hope since world rankings don't matter for WC seedings we'll see some rotation for the 8N. Not sure about some injuries but will have a stab at what I'd like to see in a wider training squad at the moment. Not purposely in any starting order.

Loosehead: Kilcoyne, Healy, Loughman, O'Sullivan - Very worrisome position at the moment. Not sure on Kilcoyne's injury. Someone needs to stand up hence why I've thrown in two youngish guys. If we feel we need solidity at the position could just throw in McGrath. Cronin's a bit meh.

Hooker: Kelleher, Herring, Marshall - either Marshall or Cronin anyway, giving it to the younger guy. I like Heffernan but we already have the low ceiling guy there in Herring. Kelleher should start due to his ceiling. He got some flack for the lineout in the Pro 14 final but think some of it was unfair and his looseplay and scrummaging makes him worth persisting with.

Tighthead: Furlong, Porter, O'Toole - Furlong and Porter do currently have injury statuses that are up in the air but if they're fit they're our guys, though I would have Porter starting ahead of Furlong at the moment. If not fit any of Ryan, Bealham and Moore could provide adequate replacement and would probably leapfrog O'Toole who's still a bit raw.

Lock: Ryan, Henderson, Baird, Beirne, Kleyn - Baird has to make his debut. He has rare traits that we've been lacking the last few years. Would love himself or Beirne to get a go at 6 at some stage.

Backrow: Doris, Stander, Conan, VDF, Connors, Deegan - Very Leinster dominated but that's the way the talent is spread at the minute. POM will most likely be in the squad and there's some good arguments for him being in it but he shouldn't be in the 23. By the sounds of it Deegan may be at risk.

Scrumhalves: Gibson-Park, Marmion, Casey - Yikes. Not sure about current status of Murray's injury but understand he's in doubt for the 6N games. Marmion just being back from injury isn't ideal either, though there's a few weeks to get up and running obviously. Casey needs to get involved in the squad. His size will always be a limitation but his quality of service is possibly already the best in Ireland, if he gets some more consistency. McGrath needs to rediscover his pre-lockdown form with Leinster.

Outhalves: Sexton, R. Byrne, Carty, H. Byrne (apprentice) - I know some people want to be the one to correctly call Sexton's career as over but he's still head and shoulders above every option. I know TABby wants Madigan but I'd rather not. I don't think Ross or Carty are the answer for various reasons so hope Harry, Healy, Lowry and Johnston get time with their provinces.

Centres: Ringrose, Henshaw, Aki, Hume, Farrell - Hume deserves a go. Would love to give a playmaking option a go but Frawley is probably the most advanced there and he's probably not there yet, particularly with that nasty injury yesterday. Hume looks a talent.

Backthree: Conway, Lowe, Stockdale, Larmour, Keenan, Daly - There's a lot guys who are sameish at the moment without anyone really putting their hands up. Keenan and Daly are probably the form players at the moment. Earls and Lyttle probably both have some argument to be included. Pity Baloucoune is injured.

Including Harry Byrne there's 39 in that squad so there will probably be another player or two squeezed in. Probably POM and Earls. Hope the trend of apprentice players does continue. I only designated Harry as such but there's a few guys around the provinces who could be good shouts for it.
Agree with most of this. Would have Heffernan in though. Would have POM in the squad but he should be nowhere near the 23. Murray doesn't deserve a spot fit or not. We're so s*** there right now that there's an argument to just throw Casey in the 23 or maybe even starting, he's so far ahead of everyone else in potential ability and no one is enough better than him to really justify sacrificing that.
 

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Possible Ireland squad

FORWARDS
Hookers: Dave Heffernan, Rob Herring, Rónan Kelleher.

Props: Cian Healy, Jack McGrath, Ed Byrne, Andrew Porter, John Ryan, Finlay Bealham.

Locks: Ultan Dillane, Iain Henderson, James Ryan, Ryan Baird, Tadhg Beirne.

Backrows: Will Connors, Caelan Doris, Jack O’Donoghue, Peter O’Mahony, CJ Stander, Josh van der Flier.

BACKS
Scrumhalves: Conor Murray, Kieran Marmion, Jamison Gibson-Park, Craig Casey.

Outhalves: Johnny Sexton, Ross Byrne, Jack Carty, Harry Byrne.

Centres: Bundee Aki, Chris Farrell, Robbie Henshaw, Garry Ringrose.

Outside backs: Andrew Conway, Shane Daly, Jacob Stockdale, Jordan Larmour, Hugo Keenan.

According to the Irish Times. Some good things like Casey, Harry Byrne and Keenan. POM being ahead if the likes of Conan and Butler is a bit silly at this stage.

Actual squad to be announced tomorrow.
 

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Possible Ireland squad

FORWARDS
Hookers: Dave Heffernan, Rob Herring, Rónan Kelleher.

Props: Cian Healy, Jack McGrath, Ed Byrne, Andrew Porter, John Ryan, Finlay Bealham.

Locks: Ultan Dillane, Iain Henderson, James Ryan, Ryan Baird, Tadhg Beirne.

Backrows: Will Connors, Caelan Doris, Jack O’Donoghue, Peter O’Mahony, CJ Stander, Josh van der Flier.

BACKS
Scrumhalves: Conor Murray, Kieran Marmion, Jamison Gibson-Park, Craig Casey.

Outhalves: Johnny Sexton, Ross Byrne, Jack Carty, Harry Byrne.

Centres: Bundee Aki, Chris Farrell, Robbie Henshaw, Garry Ringrose.

Outside backs: Andrew Conway, Shane Daly, Jacob Stockdale, Jordan Larmour, Hugo Keenan.

According to the Irish Times. Some good things like Casey, Harry Byrne and Keenan. POM being ahead if the likes of Conan and Butler is a bit silly at this stage.

Actual squad to be announced tomorrow.
I'm going to save my outrage for tomorrow when the actual squad is amnounced. Until then I'm mildly displeased.
 
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Possible Ireland squad

FORWARDS
Hookers: Dave Heffernan, Rob Herring, Rónan Kelleher.

Props: Cian Healy, Jack McGrath, Ed Byrne, Andrew Porter, John Ryan, Finlay Bealham.

Locks: Ultan Dillane, Iain Henderson, James Ryan, Ryan Baird, Tadhg Beirne.

Backrows: Will Connors, Caelan Doris, Jack O’Donoghue, Peter O’Mahony, CJ Stander, Josh van der Flier.

BACKS
Scrumhalves: Conor Murray, Kieran Marmion, Jamison Gibson-Park, Craig Casey.

Outhalves: Johnny Sexton, Ross Byrne, Jack Carty, Harry Byrne.

Centres: Bundee Aki, Chris Farrell, Robbie Henshaw, Garry Ringrose.

Outside backs: Andrew Conway, Shane Daly, Jacob Stockdale, Jordan Larmour, Hugo Keenan.

According to the Irish Times. Some good things like Casey, Harry Byrne and Keenan. POM being ahead if the likes of Conan and Butler is a bit silly at this stage.

Actual squad to be announced tomorrow.
If true. What a poor squad.

Starting at hooker. It poor but is best available.
Prop the same and actually show how big a loss Kilcoyne and Furlong are to 23.
Locks. Can't complain really.

Backrow very strange. POM is not is a good place. In saying that I 100% don't think Conan deserves spot on form. But think backrow of CJ, JVDF and Doris maybe or Connors in best of that.

9 & 10. Casey and Byrne are not ready. Yes both have serious potential but not ready yet.

Centres are was expected.
Back 3 is interesting and anyone who has watched Munster will know Shane Daly may actually bolt in to the 23 and has been in superb form. Looking at the back 3 there I think only Conway is an established guy on form so places are wide open.
 

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To be honest if Casey is there to hold bags, he would be better off continuing to get a run of games with Munster as he still only has a couple of starts and is quite raw. National team of course comes first, but we will be very light at SH down south with two scrummies gone and Cronin injured. 0 scrummies in the academy too. Of course if Casey has a chance at playing (which I doubt), then fire away!
That rumored squad definitely doesn't fill me with hope for the upcoming games, but a lot of fresh faces should be a good building block.
 

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Andrew Conway (Munster/Garryowen) 21 caps
Shane Daly (Munster/Cork Con) uncapped
Jacob Stockdale (Ulster/Lurgan) 28 caps
Hugo Keenan (Leinster/UCD) uncapped
Jordan Larmour (Leinster/St Mary’s College) 24 caps

Bundee Aki (Connacht/Galwegians) 26 caps
Chris Farrell (Munster/Young Munster) 9 caps
Robbie Henshaw (Leinster/Buccaneers) 43 caps
Stuart McCloskey (Ulster/Bangor) 3 caps
Garry Ringrose (Leinster/UCD) 29 caps

Ross Byrne (Leinster/UCD) 6 caps
Jack Carty (Connacht/Buccaneers) 10 caps
Jonathan Sexton (Leinster/St Mary’s College) 91 caps CAPTAIN

Kieran Marmion (Connacht/Corinthians) 27 caps
Conor Murray (Munster/Garryowen) 81 caps
Jamison Gibson Park (Leinster) uncapped

Dave Heffernan (Connacht/Buccaneers) 1 cap
Rob Herring (Ulster/Ballynahinch) 11 caps
Ronan Kelleher (Leinster/Lansdowne) 3 caps

Ed Byrne (Leinster/UCD) uncapped
Cian Healy (Leinster/Clontarf) 98 caps
Finlay Bealham (Connacht/Corinthians) 9 caps
Andrew Porter (Leinster/UCD) 26 caps
John Ryan (Munster/Cork Constitution) 21 caps

Ryan Baird (Leinster/Dublin University) uncapped
Tadhg Beirne (Munster/Lansdowne) 13 caps
Iain Henderson (Ulster/Academy) 55 caps
Quinn Roux (Connacht/Galwegians) 12 caps
James Ryan (Leinster/UCD) 26 caps

Will Connors (Leinster/UCD) uncapped
Jack Conan (Leinster/Old Belvedere) 17 caps
Caelan Doris (Leinster/UCD) 2 caps
Peter O’Mahony (Munster/Cork Constitution) 67 caps
CJ Stander (Munster/Shannon) 41 caps
Josh van der Flier (Leinster/UCD) 26 caps

Training with Squad w/c 12th October
Harry Byrne (Leinster/Lansdowne) uncapped
Craig Casey (Munster/Shannon) uncapped
James Lowe (Leinster) uncapped
James Tracy (Leinster/UCD) 6 caps
Fineen Wycherley (Munster/Young Munster) uncapped
 

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When is Lowe eligible? Think we're in for a bleak 18 months looking at that squad
 

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To be honest if Casey is there to hold bags, he would be better off continuing to get a run of games with Munster as he still only has a couple of starts and is quite raw. National team of course comes first, but we will be very light at SH down south with two scrummies gone and Cronin injured. 0 scrummies in the academy too. Of course if Casey has a chance at playing (which I doubt), then fire away!
That rumored squad definitely doesn't fill me with hope for the upcoming games, but a lot of fresh faces should be a good building block.

Last time the development players were all released for provincial games so I'd imagine it'll be the same here. Obviously they don't have the tag of development players but it seems to be the theme...apart from James Tracey which is a strange one. Pity Hume didn't get a spot.

I think I prefer this to the original squad named. Wonder if only having two looseheads is because they think Kilcoyne will be back soon. McGrath obviously hasn't hit the heights he once did but it's mad he can't get into the squad with the way our looseheads are now.

Conway the oldest in the back three at 29, the next oldest is 24.
 

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A fair squad. As likes of Casey and Byrne get experience of squad as well as Fineen.

@big ginger 8 Dave is back in rehab at the moment but it will be very tight to make these games.

On a side note. He probably won't get capped but Ed Byrne has been good value.

Will be very interesting and I'm excited to see can any of the new guys get in. Also will style change much.
 

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A fair squad. As likes of Casey and Byrne get experience of squad as well as Fineen.

@big ginger 8 Dave is back in rehab at the moment but it will be very tight to make these games.

On a side note. He probably won't get capped but Ed Byrne has been good value.

Will be very interesting and I'm excited to see can any of the new guys get in. Also will style change much.

I'd be shocked if Ed Byrne isn't capped he's one of only two full-time looseheads.
 

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I'd be shocked if Ed Byrne isn't capped he's one of only two full-time looseheads.
I hope he is. There was mumblings John Ryan may be looked at as #17. Not good if so as he is the wrong side of 30 and well has no form. And in my view LH prop and TH prop have become 2 positions worlds apart.

Factor in as you say if any others get called in possibly McGrath but I hope Byrne does get capped. Will be very little experimental in these 2 games you feel.

Although I must admit I thought I saw Jack McGrath in there too. Also I wonder the fact JGP is now IQ and in Irish setup will it push him in to being Leinster starter fully too.
 

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So we're potentially down Larmour and Henderson after the weekend.

On the bright side Ross Byrne's in form. Something like this for Italy assuming no Larmour/Hendo?

Daly
Conway
Ringrose
Aki
Stockdale
Sexton
Marmion
Healy
Kelleher
Porter
Beirne
Ryan
Stander
Vdf
Doris
Ed Byrne
Heffernan
Bealham
Baird
Connors
JGP
Ross Byrne
Keenan

Althougy wouldn't be surprised if we started Murray, Herring and even POM. Roux over Baird wouldn't surprise me either but would disappoint.
 

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Being reported Larmour dislocated his shoulder and is out for ten weeks. Really ****.
 

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Being reported Larmour dislocated his shoulder and is out for ten weeks. Really ****.
Shane Daly should 100% be given shot at 15. And if not Hugo Keenan. However have to say Haley has been very good for us in 2 games back. As long as it isn't Stockdale or Henshaw
 

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Baird confirmed out for these two games. Dillane called up in his place.

Gutted for Baird, absolutely deserves to be in the 23 at the moment.
 

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Three week ban for Iain Henderson. Dillane was added to the squad yesterday. No replacement for Larmour as of yet.
 
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