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Irish Rugby - The Isolation Years

BPM

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Farrell isn’t ruling out Murray at 10. Don’t shoot the messenger ...
 

The Alpha Bro

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Farrell isn’t ruling out Murray at 10. Don’t shoot the messenger ...
At least in that case our forwards would have the chance to play with some quick ball.
 

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As I said not 100% my views. But you know Murray will start here due to contract status, fact Farrell is rating him and more so as all the other halfbacks have little experience.
Add in Murray was not completely pants on form in 6Nations and they can justify it.
Not completely pants isn't a justification. He hasn't strung two good games together for Ireland in two and a half years.

We saw last week just how much of an improvement it was when we picked someone else, and as many have said JGP is far from the world's greatest 9. The fact that no one (except probably Marmion) else is considered experienced enough is all the more of a reason to give others time and ditch someone who is still getting picked on the basis of performances over 2 years ago.
 

munstermuffin

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Not completely pants isn't a justification. He hasn't strung two good games together for Ireland in two and a half years.

We saw last week just how much of an improvement it was when we picked someone else, and as many have said JGP is far from the world's greatest 9. The fact that no one (except probably Marmion) else is considered experienced enough is all the more of a reason to give others time and ditch someone who is still getting picked on the basis of performances over 2 years ago.
Again. I'm not actually disagreeing with you just stating the facts.

- JGP played well against a **** poor Welsh team. Do you think that will be enough to remove a central contract lad (based on previous experiences).
- Murray (being a Lion in past and looking like he'll go again) will be selected. Or equally if JGP starts and the team are beaten heavily it could end him. And it may not be 1 part his fault.
Look at Ross Byrne. In the RWC warm up we took a heavy beaten and his stock has literally fallen off a cliff since.

I saw a thing about games recently Argentina beating the All Blacks had so many under 24 I think, Aus were similar, Even NZ are looing at 4 year cycle. Ireland average age just went up and are the worst of top tier nations for rebuilding.
 

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munstermuffin

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The quick question would be genuinely.

If JGP does start based on excellent showing last Friday. Should POM be rewarded in same way?

Anyways seems JGP is on bench as it is being rumoured Murray is back in. Keenan loosing out too is the rumblings.
 

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The quick question would be genuinely.

If JGP does start based on excellent showing last Friday. Should POM be rewarded in same way?

Anyways seems JGP is on bench as it is being rumoured Murray is back in. Keenan loosing out too is the rumblings.
Rephrase it - If JGP should start ahead of one of the main reasons we've struggled for the past two years should POM start ahead of our two best players this season?
 

munstermuffin

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Rephrase it - If JGP should start ahead of one of the main reasons we've struggled for the past two years should POM start ahead of our two best players this season?
This is fair but to be really fair we have struggled with Henshaw at centre over past 2 years and others too. That is to do with form I accept but also gameplan.
Agreed the others are in great form but there is mentions of POM being at 7. Not sure if that will happen. I'd expect Doris/Connors/CJ with POM on bench. That is the order based on form.

Again not saying Murray deserves start etc. As I said it looks like he will be starting and will only loose spot to a younger guy. JGP will probably be the impact role for a long time right or wrong.
 

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This is fair but to be really fair we have struggled with Henshaw at centre over past 2 years and others too. That is to do with form I accept but also gameplan.
Agreed the others are in great form but there is mentions of POM being at 7. Not sure if that will happen. I'd expect Doris/Connors/CJ with POM on bench. That is the order based on form.
Curry/Underhill will tear us to shreds if we pick POM at 7.

Don't understand the Henshaw comment. Agreed on the backrow, would have had Josh but he played himself out of the 23 against Wales and same as POM England don't suit him.
 

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Curry/Underhill will tear us to shreds if we pick POM at 7.

Don't understand the Henshaw comment. Agreed on the backrow, would have had Josh but he played himself out of the 23 against Wales and same as POM England don't suit him.
In my opinion and a lot of others Henshaw has been very average to poor the last 2 years. But I don't put that down to Henshaw being poor. More a mixture of injury, form and gameplan at times,
The same could be argued for Murray. Like Murray has improved lately even with us as the gameplan has changed.
On POM my point is he is in form more than Josh but Josh is the better player 100% now.

Like on form and ability who has the higher ceiling JGP or Murray. Add in will JGP do well vs an England team in Twickenham. Like I hope these are the points we learn. Wales thought us very little as they were beyond shocking. But more so this Irish team still seems unsure of what direction or style they want to go.
 

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Post-mortem time!/reasoned analysis after losing to superior opposition time!

Loosehead is a problem. Healy is old and not that good anymore. Ed Byrne is not a viable alternative. If Eric O'Sullivan or someone (anyone) isn't called up next week...

Actually thought Herring put himself around pretty well. Kelleher's darts are a problem. Talent is there but they need to be better than they are. Can't start for Ireland until then. Don't think we'll win anything with Herring and he disappears against better packs but he played well today and is probably the best option. Scannel if he can get fit and into form has something to offer here as well. Sheehan seems to actually be able to throw the ball which could well automatically make him the best option. Had high hopes for McBurney but he hasn't kicked on.

Porter is great. Huge shift today. Deserves a week off but got a feeling we'll start him at tighthead. Depth here is alright too. Probably the position that needs the least work.

At lock, Baird needs to be involved. He's so far ahead of Quinn Roux athletically. There's the talent around the country for this to be a position of strength for us but it's not working at the moment.

Backrow, we looked like a team without an openside. CJ disappeared. One off I think but Connors should be starting until Leavy is back. Doris was good again and should be 8 going forward.

Scrumhalf JGP isn't the answer. Hopefully Casey can make a statement at Munster over the next few months. Same goes with Harry Byrne at Leinster. Will happily say that Ross isn't there after today. Don't feel happy about living in a world where Billy Burns is the best option at 10 though. Got to hope Healy and Byrne can fill the gap.

Centre we need to look at options beyond the established ones. Hume should be called up, Jimmy O'Brien too. Daly as well actually. Plenty of people who could bring a bit more creativity. Aki, Farrell and Henshaw are good players but together it's not creative enough. If we start the same centres next week I'll be unhappy.

Back three Keenan did well. Stockdale is our biggest attacking threat when on form. Lowe is good but I do think others have higher ceilings internationally. Like half back this is a position where I think we'll be good in a few years but things aren't quite there at the minute.
 

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So there were a few lads playing on Saturday who should be in their last international test window and a few who showed that they're only the supporting cast at best.

Ross Byrne - Lacks the physical attributes in a big way, should be done - Other Options: Harry Byrne; Ben Healy; and hopefully Jack Crowley pushes on.
JGP - Start him for Scotland because he suits the gameplan and Murray is a good bench option but you wouldn't want him higher than a stand in for Casey next year.
Roux - Wasn't bad but wasn't good, with Henderson, Beirne, Baird and a few otheres about you'd hope not to see him.
Aki and Farrell together - Tough gig but they showed a severe lack of dynamism, time to take a look at Hume and Frawley.

Both did well on Saturday but Earls and POM should be bowing out here too, we should really be trying to push older lads who aren't auto-starters out of the squad. Same will go for Johnny after the 6n I imagine.

I disagree with you @Leinster Fan re Kelleher. Herring hasn't been hitting his darts either and offers far less around the park, you'd be dropping a young guy who can't throw for an older and worse player who can't throw, makes no sense to me.

Prop is scary bad, we have young lads but no standouts at all, someone needs to step up fast, I could see Healy still starting in 2022 at this rate.

The few remaining areas weren't massive problems but I don't think any area was at full strength and definitely none were firing on all cylinders.
 

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Just on hooker anyone watching Kevin O Byrne will know on form he is miles ahead of any other hooker in Ireland this season and his darts are the best by a distance statistically too. Age is not on his side but a good stop gap.

English game showed we have a few that are not at the level that Ireland is.
Agree with Alpha that POM and Earls should be ushered out. But I think Sexton should be gone too. Use next 6Nations to really groom Byrne and Healy.

Same regards centre. If we playing the flowing style test lads like Frawley. If it fails at least we know. Also continue to blood Keenan or whoever at 15. Stockdale is a qorldclass winger get him back there too and let him find his top form again.

At 1 I'd use Wycherley and O'Sullivan off bench with Healy and Kilcoyne around too.
At 3 Tadgh and Porter but again lets try youngsters too as opposed to John Ryan
 

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So looks like Eric O'Sullivan is the only player called up for Georgia. Well deserved for him but had hoped we'd see a few other like Baird, Casey and maybe Leavy.

Also guarantees Healy will be part of the 23 which seems dumb.
 

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So looks like Eric O'Sullivan is the only player called up for Georgia. Well deserved for him but had hoped we'd see a few other like Baird, Casey and maybe Leavy.

Also guarantees Healy will be part of the 23 which seems dumb.
Whatever about the others (maybe too early for the halfbacks and Leavy), not calling up Baird and Hume is just dumb. Wouldn't be surprised if Porter plays 1, not that I necessarily think it's a good idea but I can see us trying it.

I tried writing out a team but it just made me realise just how many caps we're wasting this weekend. Almost no players in the squad need the experience.
 

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Whatever about the others (maybe too early for the halfbacks and Leavy), not calling up Baird and Hume is just dumb. Wouldn't be surprised if Porter plays 1, not that I necessarily think it's a good idea but I can see us trying it.

I tried writing out a team but it just made me realise just how many caps we're wasting this weekend. Almost no players in the squad need the experience.

Hume is just back from injury.
 

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Leinster should be bulling. Furlong has serious injury and they they flog Porter and Healy here right before European campaign.Georgia should've seens few called in although I believe Covid and s bubble is partly to blame
 

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Hume is just back from injury
Fair enough. Still not enough players called up. Baird and more props need to be involved. If Porter plays I'll lose it, Leinster need him more than Ireland need against Georgia. Same goes with Healy especially if Byrne is also struggling. Flogging our props just increases the chances of someone going 80 against Montpeilliers and no one in the Irish setup wants to see that.
 

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