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Is Munster Rugby in a crisis?

ttankk

Academy Player
Joined
May 2, 2012
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Many people over social-media, blogs and forums are voicing their concerns at the state Munster Rugby are finding themselves in and how the future looks bleak. I understand that Munster fans (I am one myself) are worried because of the lack of silverware the last few years especially the Heineken cup including this years exit to Ulster which has been disappointing especially with the last Heineken cup triumph in 2008 but we must remember teams must go through change. Players leave, retire and management changes all of which contribute to results on the field. I want to look at the squad we have and I am just going to voice my opinion because I believe Munster are in the process of building a squad with serious strength in dept. I will make my recommendations but again these my opinions I don’t expect everyone to agree.
I am going to start and look at the Munster pack which in the past has always been the focal point of attack for victorious Munster teams. To look at the options of Munster's props would dishearten many fans with the fact that we can’t field a strong enough Irish front three that can compete is upsetting but is rife throughout the Irish provinces. We are lucky to have a dominating tight head prop in BJ Botha who I believe to be a top notch scrimmage. Wian Du Prees for me was an unknown quantity when he first arrived but I feel he has developed well and adapted to suit the intensity of European rugby and comes from a super rugby franchise the cheetahs known for producing props. After that we start to slide in quality, I don’t blame that on the players in question I blame the lack of game time afforded to them over the years. Stephan Archer was talked about for years and really excelled in the AIL but to be honest was never given the exposure at a young age which is needed now a days. Peter Borlase was another New Zealander brought in but wasn’t good enough for super Rugby so what made us think he would be for European is beyond me. Everything I have seen (little due to injury) says flop but hopefully his stint in Connacht will prove me wrong. Finally David Kilcoyne and John Ryan have been putting in some good performances for the A team who are in the final of the British and Irish cup after beating Leinster. Says a lot in my opinion of the youth coming through.
Hooker is a jersey that has been changing hands continuously over the years with the recently retired Jerry Flannery constantly having to battle back from injury. Damien Varley is the outright starter in my opinion but Mike Sherry who I like a lot is not far behind and has been handed the starting jersey over the last while. Then we have Sean Henry who is an average club player and then a young up and coming player in the form of Duncan Casey. May not been known to most but anyone that follows the Irish club scene will know him from Shannon RFC. Has been injured for the later part of the season but one to look out for.

Second row I think is a position of strength for the province with the stalwarts of POC and DOC still putting in international standard performances and then with emergence of Donnacha Ryan pushing for a starting place week in week out at provincial and international level. The retirement of Mick O'Driscoll I think will benefit us and give game time to Ian Nagle who I believe to have some serious potential and Dave Foley highly regarded in the Munster ranks.

The back row is where I will agree with most we may have a problem. David Wallace and Denis leamy are not getting any younger and have both been hit by injuries the last few years. The bright light for Munster being the emergence of Peter O’Mahony but the dilemma being where to play him 6 or 7. I think he fits perfectly into the number 7 mould and should be the outright successor to Wallace at Munster and Ireland if he continues to progress. James Coughlan is a no nonsense sort of player and has been putting his hand up to be included in Declan Kidneys plans for New Zealand. After that we have Niall Ronan who I believe to be a good player not international standard. Billy Holland who has been plying his trade with A’s for most of the season but we do have two young players in the form of Dave O Callaghan and Paddy Butler who both played together at Irish U20 level and both have promising carriers ahead of them providing they can get game time. I would like to the signing of a world class number 8 which I believe would be a great addition to the team.

Now for the backs and starting with nine and ten, people have been saying that Conor Murray isn’t as good as people make him out to be and that Eoin Reddan is better. That absolute nonsense, Reddan Shines because of the higher calibre of Backs he has at his disposal and slightly more experience Back rowers. Murray is the future and will the Irish number 9 for many years to come. Now we do need a top quality back up, O’Leary is leaving and that leaves Duncan Williams who is unproven and the returning Stringer who I love and believe to have one of the best passes in the game but is on his last legs. I’m sorry to say it but ROG has to move aside yes he got us to the knock out stages this year holds numerous personal records but we can’t rely on him anymore. Also it’s preventing us grooming a successor which at the moment looks like Ian Keatley. I think he definitely has potential but needs to be given game time now so that he can work on his weaker aspects such as game management. It’s being done in Leinster with Ian Madigan who I would love to see at Munster. He is ahead of Keatley in development and that’s down to Joe Schmidt who has encouraged him to play without fear and not worry about making mistakes. In my opinion it will be scandalous if he is not included for New Zealand ahead of ROG.

Now to the centres, I am one of the many Irish people who have always said Earls should stick to the wing. I must admit though I am being converted the man has bulked up and worked hard on his defensive side of things and has pace to burn at outside centre. Inside centre again looks like it will be filled by another New Zealander in Casey Laulala or James Downey an old school centre. Both in the last few years of their carriers though. I do believe we have some young Irish players with real potential coming through in the next year. Danny Barnes has shown glimpses of what he is capable of in the last year or two and after a stunning u20 six nations JJ Hanrahan who can play outhalf but is looking like having the ability to be top class centre will definitely be seeing senior action next season. The wings is another position I believe we don’t need any help in just some patience with possibly the greatest ever overseas signing Howlett returning next year who will nurture and help with the development of Simon Zebo and Luke O’Dea. Zebo has shown a real nose for the try line and a change in speed not seen in Munster for a while; with some work needed defensively he is not far off international standard. Luke O’Dea who has signed a pro contract for next season after a handful of tries in his debut season has really shown promise. He is clinical has real speed and a serious tackler for his size, a real prospect for the future. Also John Murphy is not a bad player to have in your squad. Full back then is a position I think again with a little patience could prove to be so strong over the coming years with Felix Jones really starting to develop into a good looking fullback after returning from injury. We also have ever consistent Denis Hurley and the young Sean Scanlon.
So to finish, do I believe we need to make major chances and go into panic mode and buy buy buy? NO, I think with a little patience and support I can really see Munster becoming a dominant force again in the League and Europe. Just to add who I would like to see as the next munster coach , Axel is a great choice but I feel still needs guidance. Most important is no matter who comes in a quality backs coach is essential to get the best out of the young backline we have which posses bags of potential.

Out
 
Good article but no crisis and this coming from someone who sees them most days train. You can't win every year and we are rebuilding. Have a superb production line of locks, hookers and back 3 players that will improve with time. Our back row potential is good. We are better situated for props now than in boom and while centre position can be fixed. 10 position is area of concern but again can be fixed and new management team will bring freshness.
Fact is no team stays on top and Leinster are on top now but will eventually decline and rebuild this happens every team
 
Says you, we're aiming for that Toulouse kind of always deadly thing. That'd be good :p

Anywoo, Reddan>>Murray. It shows when they play for Ireland. We play better as a team when we have the quicker and more accurate supply of ball that Reddan delivers. Murray has a decent bit of potential, but he was hyped up beyond belief last seasn and hasn't gone anywhere near delivering what people were saying he could.

It must really **** people in Munster that they let both Reddan and Ross go. If they had kept those two they'd be a far superior side.
 
Toulouse had poor few years in Europe there recently and even this year was bad for them.
As in Leinster will loose BOD, Nacewa, D'Arcy and possibly Reddan in next 2 years or so and that will weaken them. Addin the pack in 2 years they'll be down Cullen and maybe Ross but all in all that is a lot of experience and leadership. and Jennings
Think every team suffers at some stage like all our players got old at same time.
Leinster may have the same issue in 6/7/8 years when maybe Sexton, Heaslip, Healy, Cronin, Strauss, O'Brien, Fitzgearld, Kearney and McFadden all get old together
 
Toulouse had poor few years in Europe there recently and even this year was bad for them.
As in Leinster will loose BOD, Nacewa, D'Arcy and possibly Reddan in next 2 years or so and that will weaken them. Addin the pack in 2 years they'll be down Cullen and maybe Ross but all in all that is a lot of experience and leadership. and Jennings
Think every team suffers at some stage like all our players got old at same time.
Leinster may have the same issue in 6/7/8 years when maybe Sexton, Heaslip, Healy, Cronin, Strauss, O'Brien, Fitzgearld, Kearney and McFadden all get old together

D'arcy signed a new contract there yesterday, as did Nacewa.

I think to a certain extent Leinster won't have the same problem as Munster, largely due to a more progressive management team. The amount of youth that we've brought through recently has been fantastic and it's shown in terms of depth. You only need to look at the 50+ points we put on Edinburgh a few weeks ago to see that. While I'm not arguing that the Munster team in the mid to late 00's was fantastic, there' no doubt that after the starting 22, there was a serious lack of talent and a neglect of the academy. Hopefully we'll manage to avoid that and signs are good at the moment, with a young players pushing for a first team spot in pretty much every position.

Anyway, that was all mildly off topic. Munster will be fine, their back row just needs a wee bit of time to develop.
 
I agree and big difference is the academies etc are in place and while I know D'Arcy and Nacewa have new and extended deals but in 2 years time they will possibly be retired in D'Arcys case and contract can't be renewed in Nacewa case I'm just saying while Leinster won't be as bad as Munster were in there rebuilding process they will have minor hit. But I think on point our rebuilding is more of a process because we were 2 years behind both HEC finalists in getting academy and we did not rotate and test fringe guys enough which hurt their development slightly
 
Munster aren't in crisis, they're merely in the latter stages of their rebuilding mode. The great Heineken Cup winning teams of 2006 and 2008 (should have added a 3rd in 2009 but for a freak Leinster semi final performance) couldn't last forever and Tony McGahan had a really tough job retooling the team. He's left them in really good shape, winning two Magners League/Pro 12 ***les, making two Heineken Cup semi finals and overseeing the improvement in the academy which has lead to two B&I Cup wins. Declan Kidney wouldn't have done any better had he remained in charge in my opinion. McGahan was unfortunate in that his tenure coincided with the rise of Leinster while he tried to build a new team.
 
Munster aren't in crisis, they're merely in the latter stages of their rebuilding mode. The great Heineken Cup winning teams of 2006 and 2008 (should have added a 3rd in 2009 but for a freak Leinster semi final performance) couldn't last forever and Tony McGahan had a really tough job retooling the team. He's left them in really good shape, winning two Magners League/Pro 12 ***les, making two Heineken Cup semi finals and overseeing the improvement in the academy which has lead to two B&I Cup wins.
lol, brilliant stuff.
 
Munster aren't in crisis, they're merely in the latter stages of their rebuilding mode. The great Heineken Cup winning teams of 2006 and 2008 (should have added a 3rd in 2009 but for a freak Leinster semi final performance) couldn't last forever and Tony McGahan had a really tough job retooling the team. He's left them in really good shape, winning two Magners League/Pro 12 ***les, making two Heineken Cup semi finals and overseeing the improvement in the academy which has lead to two B&I Cup wins. Declan Kidney wouldn't have done any better had he remained in charge in my opinion. McGahan was unfortunate in that his tenure coincided with the rise of Leinster while he tried to build a new team.
Agree with all this and let's not forget we are still behind in our developing of an academy with regards to comparison with Leinster and Ulster. But I think our work in the B&I cup is showing an awful lot of effort is being put in and well now the first few seem to be coming through guys like O'Mahony, DOCv2, Luke O'Dea, Zebo and few others and well if we can keep building then it will give us a superb base
 

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