Is scrum really necessary?

[sigesige00]

Scrum is something I do not like in Rugby.
I doubt the necessity of scrum.

The shortcomings of scrum are:

Time-consuming
Too many resets
Physically too demanding
Too many injuries (dangerous)
Impossible when the difference of strength between 2 sides is large
Too many fouls
etc etc...

 

[LittleGuy]

Than watch League sige!!! Plenty of good action in NRL and Super League.

 

[dasNdanger]

It's most definitely necessary! How else can the saying 'Ruck me, maul me, make me scrum' make any sense otherwise?!?




das

 

[Jaguares]

I think the refs should be more tolerant about resets, not be sooooooooo strict

 

[Guilty]

Scrum is something I do not like in Rugby.
I doubt the necessity of scrum.

The shortcomings of scrum are:

Time-consuming
Too many resets
Physically too demanding
Too many injuries (dangerous)
Impossible when the difference of strength between 2 sides is large
Too many fouls
etc etc...

I actually agreed with you - most Australians would - but this is far and away I have unpopular opinion in rugby union.

Furthermore, scrums are a major area in which NH teams are able to compete against SH teams so this will never ever happen.

 

[SixteenSixtySix]

Scrum is something I do not like in Rugby.
I doubt the necessity of scrum.

The shortcomings of scrum are:

Time-consuming
Too many resets
Physically too demanding
Too many injuries (dangerous)
Impossible when the difference of strength between 2 sides is large
Too many fouls
etc etc...

Yes, it is. Scrummaging has been an essential part of the sport and will continue to be so.

It is sometimes unavoidable if the scrum takes too long or needed to be reset again tho nowadays it's quick. Don't like it? There's absolutely nothing you can do about it. Let the ref sort it out and be on your way.

I assume you're a backline when you said 'physically too demanding'. It may be so for some but I don't hear any forwards complaining about that. Not everyone can be a front rower because the position is very specialised and a player can only play that position if he has the right body physique.

Too many injuries? Sure, we've seen some gruesome freak accidents such as Matt Hampson, but for it to happen is quite unlikely because players rarely get injured when the scrum collapses; not to mention that a safer engagement is applied but still, it can happen. It's usually a player's fault for not scrummaging properly when it happen regardless if intentional or not.

'Impossible when the difference of strength between 2 sides is large'? That's not even a real issue. Well, for the weaker side it is. It's like saying Germany shouldn't win against Brazil in the 7-1 match because Germany was the stronger side. Totally absurd. Brazil's problem.

Again, player's fault for making too many fouls.

I am aware that I'm posting this with an aggressive tone, and I apologize if I offend you in any way, but I just have to make my points loud and clear.

 

[Thingimubob]

Are there really many injuries directly off the scrum? Especially since the hit has been dumbed down?

Off the top of my head I've only ever seen one serious injury off a scrum in rugby(pro or amateur): a prop for the Blues Gary Powell got absolutely destroyed by his opposite number, and his foot caught awkwardly in the ground as he was being shunted backwards, and tore his Achilles... Complete freak accident that could happen at any ruck, tackle or even tripping over situation.

Anyway, agree that there's faults to be looked at with the scrum, but it needs tweaking not taking out.

There's a rule being tested in that 2nd tier Aussie tournament where you aren't able to kick for goal if a penalty is won way the scrum. Don't mind that idea too much as it could take away trying to win a penalty at every scrum rather than using it as a attacking platform.

 

[sigesige00]

Could you tell me the world record of scrums?

The largest number of scrums in a game
or
No scrum game

 

[SelimNiai]

It's most definitely necessary! How else can the saying 'Ruck me, maul me, make me scrum' make any sense otherwise?!?




das

Pure filth I tells ya

 

[goodNumber10]

i actually agreed with you - most australians would - but this is far and away i have unpopular opinion in rugby union.

Furthermore, scrums are a major area in which nh teams are able to compete against sh teams so this will never ever happen.

lol!

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

'You must spread some reputation before giving it to sigesige00 again' is the most common and saddest thing I see on this forum!

 

[Dandman]

I take all of these points on board but for someone who has only just 'discovered' Rugby Union in the past year, the scrum does frustrate me most of the time- seems like so little gain for so much time & effort, though I do acknowledge the psychological aspect too

 

[sigesige00]

'Impossible when the difference of strength between 2 sides is large'? That's not even a real issue. Well, for the weaker side it is. It's like saying Germany shouldn't win against Brazil in the 7-1 match because Germany was the stronger side. Totally absurd. Brazil's problem.

Again, player's fault for making too many fouls.

In Football, that is not a problem at all. In amateur games, there are sometimes scores like 17-0 or so, but that is not a problem.
But scrum is entirely different. Scrum is a forcible contact play which both sides are not allowed to avoid. Scores like 300-0 is not a problem (there was really a 300-0 game in Japan's Highschool Rugby), but scrum is a problem.

 

[SixteenSixtySix]

I take all of these points on board but for someone who has only just 'discovered' Rugby Union in the past year, the scrum does frustrate me most of the time- seems like so little gain for so much time & effort, though I do acknowledge the psychological aspect too

Scrum gives more variety to tactics; something rugby league lack. This very reason is why I prefer union over league.

Argentina almost always try to drive the scrum as much as possible to gain ground. They've even scored tries with the scrum and also was awarded countless penalty tries too.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

as a front rower (when playing) i can say there is very few feelings better than getting a tighthead or turn over...on your line...if they get it out someone will go over in the corner...its all down to you guys...use to love doing it and still love watching it.

I also think there are probably more injuries in open play than in scums, less resets...more leaniency (let the tight 5's sort it out) and they would be golden

 

[SixteenSixtySix]

In Football, that is not a problem at all. In amateur games, there are sometimes scores like 17-0 or so, but that is not a problem.
But scrum is entirely different. Scrum is a forcible contact play which both sides are not allowed to avoid. Scores like 300-0 is not a problem (there was really a 300-0 game in Japan's Highschool Rugby), but scrum is a problem.

The football thing was supposed to be an analogy on your 'Impossible when the difference of strength between 2 sides is large' point. What the score is irrelevant. I meant to say that it's not Germany's fault for being stronger. Same with a stronger pack in the scrum. Are they to blame for being stronger? Hell no. Like I said, it's not even a problem is it?

Also, what are you trying to say with the 300-0 game?

On a side note, there is a way to avoid scrums; don't drop the ball.

 

[RoosTah]

Scrum gives more variety to tactics; something rugby league lack. This very reason is why I prefer union over league.

Argentina almost always try to drive the scrum as much as possible to gain ground. They've even scored tries with the scrum and also was awarded countless penalty tries too.

Please explain how scrummaging is what gives Union more tactical depth than League. I don't think there's a case for that at all...

That said, I do agree that there is greater tactical variation in Union, but I think the scrum has precisely zero to do with that. Rather, what gives union its greater tactical depth is rucking, as the fact that the ball is being contested at every tackle means teams have to think more about the challenge of balancing possession with field position. The only thing the scrum offers is the opportunity to overpower your opponents, other than that what it offers is the same as it is in league; more space to attack with all the forwards tied up.

As for the author of this thread - you really ought to watch the NRL. It's a brilliant competition and the skills on display are absolutely fantastic. For a real clinic on ball in hand free-flowing footy though, watch the Kangaroos v Kiwis in last year's world cup final.

 

[Jbobo]

It's most definitely necessary! How else can the saying 'Ruck me, maul me, make me scrum' make any sense otherwise?!?




das

That got the blood pumping! You naughty girl (probably)


Oh, and scrum to stay. Integral part of the game. Doubt many supporters bar maybe the Aussies and Fijians would want to get rid of it haha

 

[Jbobo]

Please explain how scrummaging is what gives Union more tactical depth than League. I don't think there's a case for that at all....

Union has far more variety for one. In that, it actually has a meaningful set piece.

 

[dasNdanger]

That got the blood pumping! You naughty girl (probably)

:kiss:



das