Izzy Folau

Discussion in 'General Rugby Union' started by The Alpha Bro, Apr 10, 2019.

  1. The Alpha Bro

    The Alpha Bro Fat Boi

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  3. TRF_Olyy

    TRF_Olyy English Arrogance

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    Should be,

    At the very least he should be binned from the Wallabies asap. They've been making great strides setting up inclusivity initiatives etc.

    CEO of Qantas is an openly gay man, as well, so that sponsorship will be in jeopardy.


    No place for this sort of bigotry in this day and age.

    And before the freedom of speech lot turn up - he's absolutely allowed to spout this bile, he's just not free of the consequences of his actions which will, hopefully, be the sporting community putting him in the bin.
     
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  4. TobyBeastTeague

    TobyBeastTeague First XV

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    I just don’t understand how he can be stupid enough to think that it’s acceptable to post stuff like this? If he has those views, whatever, that’s his business but I don’t see how he can be so disconnected to think that he can post something like that in today’s climate and think that it’s okay. It’s mind-boggling.

    Lesser players wouldn’t step foot on a rugby pitch again. It’s a shame that his rugby ability will likely see him avoid serious punishment from the Tahs and the Wallabies.
     
  5. BPM

    BPM First XV

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    I’m not sure he will escape punishment. He may have done the first time, but this doesn’t exactly suggest he’s taken anything on board and his profile in the world game probably means that World Rugby will want to see action from Australia.
     
  6. ncurd

    ncurd International

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    Yeah looking again apart from the obvious headline number I'm not a particular fan of his attack on alcoholics and atheists either (both of which I have personal grievances to).

    Actually telling anyone they deserve to go to hell is pretty horrible thing only thing on list is an actual crime...
     
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  7. ncurd

    ncurd International

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    Just for the record on alcohol I'm not referring to myself, my mother died of alcohol related liver failure earlier this year. She was 57 and it was the first time she presented with alcohol related illness so was essentially given zero warnings it could kill her (other than the amount she was drinking) we were told that usually a person would of presented 3 or 4 times before it was that serious. Anyway its still raw and I'm a little more acutely aware of how badly we treat alcoholism as a society.
     
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  8. Groundhog

    Groundhog #1 Cuck

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    With such righteous beliefs Folau will soon truly live as Jesus did. Unemployed and sleeping outdoors.
    Seriously though this is despicable from a public figure. He's way past the fanatic point of return and Rugby AU needs to sever ties quickly and publicly denounce this. I'm sure they will but they can't dither.
     
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  9. The_Blindside

    The_Blindside First XV

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    That is very sad to hear @ncurd. Commiserations for your loss.

    On Izzy, well these are not just his beliefs, but what his religion so called decrees. Whether he should sanctioned for them I’m not sure because people don’t like to hear what he believes in. One of my house mates and good friends at school and Uni is a devout evangelical Christian and also a fella at work is one as well and both would agree with what Izzy believes in and what the Bible espouses. One of them believes his own parents will end up in hell because they are not “Christians” that is how “fanatic” he believes in his religion. Anyway each to their own.
     
  10. ncurd

    ncurd International

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    I know many Christians who don't need to spout homophobia even if they have those views.
    Personally I think you have freedom of speech & ideology until you try to inflict harm onto others. We in the UK have laws against inciting hatred and with followers Folau has thats exactly what he has done. I don't think 'my religion told me it was fine' is any better than 'just following orders' argument.
     
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  11. The_Blindside

    The_Blindside First XV

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    Not the evangelical Christians I have spoken to. They will agree with Izzy’s views. They may are not as public with it as Izzy. I do not agree with him or my friend’s views.

    Whether it infringes or is hate speech - maybe it does. Would be interested to see if the Australian Government would prosecute Izzy for his post as being an example of one. I very much doubt it though.
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2019
  12. ncurd

    ncurd International

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    My experience is unless the speech actually incites an act of physical violence or direct abuse governments are incredibly reluctant to prosecute. Most of the time it yields a slap on the wrist.

    World Rugby may take a very differing view though.
     
  13. Chief Pete

    Chief Pete Academy Player

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    Penny for David Pocock's thought's, I can't see how Folau can continue in union now, at the least that should be his international career done....

    Probably the best FB or at least in the conversation in the world but from a commercial point of view he just can't be trusted, terrible example to set....
     
  14. Aristodemus

    Aristodemus Bench Player

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    Unfortunately this kind of viewpoint is much more widespread than people think, especially in religious groups. Folau speaks out where others stay quiet.

    Much as I disagree with his views of the world I don't like the idea of banning sportsmen for the personal beliefs they have.
     
  15. TRF_Olyy

    TRF_Olyy English Arrogance

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    Not banned for his beliefs, banned for yelling about them on social media.

    What if you're a young Australian rugby fan struggling with your sexuality and you go on social media and see your hero saying you're going to hell?
    Or struggling with your gender identity to see him calling you evil?

    Australian rugby have recently launched a company/charity/whatever it is based on opening up sports to LGBTQ people all over Australia - they can't stand by while their poster boy belittles and insults the same people they claim to want to help.
     
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  16. Chief Pete

    Chief Pete Academy Player

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    There comes a point when a governing body has no option but to ban and distance themselves from the player in question, he'll end up costing a fortune in lost revenue from sponsor's who'll want nothing to do with him, as cynical as it sound's but the decision to potentially drop Folau will I think be largely based on money....
     
  17. scotty507

    scotty507 First XV

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    He is fully entiled to believe what he wants and entitled to talk about with friends or like minded people. What he cant do is put it on social media for the world to see.

    So many times people have done something or said something and ive thought just let it go because people and stop over reacting but this guy is a dick.
     
  18. Chief Pete

    Chief Pete Academy Player

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    I remember the saying "Don't ever meet your idols" in case they disappoint you and now through twitter you don't need to meet them, unfortunately that saying is ringing true with me regarding Izzy Folau...
     
  19. Cruz_del_Sur

    Cruz_del_Sur First XV

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    Ok, I think we all agree the guy is a moron of biblical proportions (no punt intended), but i disagree about the punishments proposed here.
    Freedom of speech is paramount. It's as close to an absolute right as you can get, and for good reasons. It's the first right and a necessary condition for a lot of other rights.
    And if you want to punish him for what he says, there are other mechanisms.

    I am perfectly fine with the tahs cutting him if they decide that 's not how they want to be represented. I don't like it, but i can understand. They are an employer and he is an employee.
    I am not so sure about the wallabies thou. I can still see a logical reason to cut him and i'm fine with that.

    In both cases i understand management's decision to cut him. What i would strongly disagree with is any Union (ARU, WR, SANZAAR to intervene). That for me is just nonsense.

    Legally there are some pretty big differences. First that most jurisdictions have freedom of worship inscribed into their laws. And second, that the following orders line of arguments is used as a defense for actions, not speech.

    I agree that that is a problem, but i disagree with your solution. The solution shouldnt come from idiots not having a voice, but by telling those young austrlians how to recognize idiots and not idolizing them. As much as it would pain me to see people in those circumstances, you have to deal with that. That's life. If it is not a rugby player it will be a rockstar, or a DJ, or a politicians, or someone somewhere with stupid views.
    If your idol says that you should be told by school, government, friends, family, and every formal and informal institution around him, that people aren't perfect and even they people you idolized yesterday can be a bloody idiot tomorrow, and that a person being good at rugby doesnt mean he has to be the moral standard of anything.

    Some of my idols as a kid were Maradona and Roger Waters. At one point you need to differentiate talent from morals.

    Says who?
     
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  20. Old Hooker

    Old Hooker First XV

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    @ncurd my sympathies also for your loss.

    The actual words he’s used clearly convey his message, aren’t subtle but nor overly inflammatory. The bible quote he’s given is part of what he’s based his faith on. The real issue is the messaging of that stupid bumper sticker version of what’s in the bible; there is no way that’s not going to create a sh*tstorm, it’s crass and doubly so for someone with previous. But....

    He can hold whatever beliefs he wants.

    I also believe in freedom of speech. If he’d said that his faith enables him to love everyone equally no matter colour, creed, orientation or whatever no-one would be batting an eyelid, in fact he’d be applauded. So it’s not about yelling his beliefs from the from the roof tops, it’s the way those beliefs are expressed and that they don’t comply with current norms.

    While he clearly has strong views, he’s not inciting violence against particular groups or anything like that. I suppose some extremists might take it as such, but there are always people willing to twist whatever they see to their own warped agendas.

    What it is, is a PR disaster of biblical proportions. Whether he likes it or not, his profile gives him a platform and it should be obvious to a goldfish that his views will be widely read and disliked by many. I have no doubt lawyers are poring over disrepute clauses as we speak, will be interesting to see what happens.
     
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  21. Leinster Fan

    Leinster Fan First XV

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    I think the religion excuse is nonsense to be honest. Don't see why it should be a reason to justify hate speech at all.
     
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