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Jake White on SA rugby
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<blockquote data-quote="Bruce_ma gooshvili" data-source="post: 815928" data-attributes="member: 74121"><p>I'll wade into this discussion from the perspective of someone who generally favours political interference to advance social mobility on occassions when <em>the evidence suggests leaving current systems in place isn't advancing anything</em>. So I think of it mainly in terms of social mobility and educational attainment in schools, but I'd argue this can be applied to South African rugby (and indeed Scottish rugby if we switch race, for social class). I could write an essay on it but will try to spare you that (plus rushing as NZvsArg game about to start). The main points I'd make are:</p><p></p><p><strong>i)</strong> The ANC are awful and have been getting worse - no arguments there. But I think we have to try and seperate this argument from the ANC. A more level headed, moderate party might also consider such policies of political intervention in sports.</p><p></p><p><strong>ii) </strong>for all my arguments below you could replace "white" with "wealthy" and "non-white" with "any colour, but from a less wealthy social class". Its not wholly a racial thing, and is possibly more economic. Scotland (and by the sounds of it other countries) have issues with rugby being largely the preserve of fee paying schoolboys and the thought of a Scottish lad from a housing scheme making it into top level rugby has been pretty laughable for decades.</p><p></p><p><strong>iii)</strong> as an outsider, the SA national side doesn't appear to have become all that more multi-racial / ethnic since their post-Apartheid RWC victory 20+ years ago (neither has cricket). This indicates to me that "leaving things alone" was not producing encouraging cultural integration or spreading the sport into non-white communities in SA.</p><p></p><p><strong>iv)</strong> if the national side is filled with white men, there are a lack of role models for non-white kids. It is then not surprising that non-white kids will massively favour football over rugby. It is in part a self-fulfilling prophecy.</p><p></p><p><strong>v)</strong> yes, quotas means "better players" can sometimes lose out to "worse players" at all age groups. However, many "better players" who are white, will have had consistently far superior facilities, coaching and financial security to enhance their progression at every single step of their development? I'd argue that a "better player" of say age 12-16 can easily be overtaken by a "worse player" who may not be white, once that "worse player" gets access to comparable facilities etc.</p><p></p><p><strong>vi)</strong> I genuinely think that, no matter how wrong headed you think they are, these quotas may be the saving of SA rugby if it opens the sport up to widespread youth participation for 90% of the population (some 35 million people?). That's like an entirely new large country of potential talent that can be fed into the existing highly successful school systems in SA can tap into. The thought of the talent SA will be churning out (of both black and white) in 10-15 years time is pretty frightening. You only have to look at the Lions this year (and their second XV looked great first half against the Jaguares) to imagine what a team combining the best athletic talent from all ethnic groups in SA might look like in the future. This in turn gives great white talent like van Rensburg a stronger platform in which to demonstrate their ability and to challenge for major honours.</p><p></p><p><strong>vii)</strong> I've seen more ethnic asian players in SA top flight rugby (1 player, Kassim for Cheetahs?) than I have in the UK, despite the UK having a huge asian population. So this post is not a European looking down his nose at SA, as hilariously in Scotland rugby could arguably be more elitist and more of a closed shop than it is in SA.</p><p></p><p><strong>viii)</strong> it helps to remind ourselves of the extent of social inequality that we are looking at by viewing things like this link <a href="http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-37066738" target="_blank">http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-37066738</a></p><p></p><p>Do we really think a young kid wanting to play rugby, but was born on the wrong side of the tracks in those photos stands any realistic chance of maximising their potential in a situation where there is no political interference? A century of SA history would suggest not.</p><p></p><p><strong>ix)</strong> the situation will get less painful and less open to accusation of "not being fair" once non-white kids of today, who have been routinely given access to top facilities etc begin to filter through into top flight rugby. <em>That is when we will truly see SA sides filled with players based on sporting merit.</em></p><p></p><p></p><p>I appreciate this will be going against the grain in these parts, but I thought I'd offer up a completely different perspective. In summary, there are issues with SA rugby going forward, but that is mainly around the economic situation to me. I fully expect SA to be a top 4 nation for decades to come despite rising stars like Argentina, England, Japan and Ireland and that you will soar away from Australia and put real pressure on NZ.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Bruce_ma gooshvili, post: 815928, member: 74121"] I'll wade into this discussion from the perspective of someone who generally favours political interference to advance social mobility on occassions when [I]the evidence suggests leaving current systems in place isn't advancing anything[/I]. So I think of it mainly in terms of social mobility and educational attainment in schools, but I'd argue this can be applied to South African rugby (and indeed Scottish rugby if we switch race, for social class). I could write an essay on it but will try to spare you that (plus rushing as NZvsArg game about to start). The main points I'd make are: [B]i)[/B] The ANC are awful and have been getting worse - no arguments there. But I think we have to try and seperate this argument from the ANC. A more level headed, moderate party might also consider such policies of political intervention in sports. [B]ii) [/B]for all my arguments below you could replace "white" with "wealthy" and "non-white" with "any colour, but from a less wealthy social class". Its not wholly a racial thing, and is possibly more economic. Scotland (and by the sounds of it other countries) have issues with rugby being largely the preserve of fee paying schoolboys and the thought of a Scottish lad from a housing scheme making it into top level rugby has been pretty laughable for decades. [B]iii)[/B] as an outsider, the SA national side doesn't appear to have become all that more multi-racial / ethnic since their post-Apartheid RWC victory 20+ years ago (neither has cricket). This indicates to me that "leaving things alone" was not producing encouraging cultural integration or spreading the sport into non-white communities in SA. [B]iv)[/B] if the national side is filled with white men, there are a lack of role models for non-white kids. It is then not surprising that non-white kids will massively favour football over rugby. It is in part a self-fulfilling prophecy. [B]v)[/B] yes, quotas means "better players" can sometimes lose out to "worse players" at all age groups. However, many "better players" who are white, will have had consistently far superior facilities, coaching and financial security to enhance their progression at every single step of their development? I'd argue that a "better player" of say age 12-16 can easily be overtaken by a "worse player" who may not be white, once that "worse player" gets access to comparable facilities etc. [B]vi)[/B] I genuinely think that, no matter how wrong headed you think they are, these quotas may be the saving of SA rugby if it opens the sport up to widespread youth participation for 90% of the population (some 35 million people?). That's like an entirely new large country of potential talent that can be fed into the existing highly successful school systems in SA can tap into. The thought of the talent SA will be churning out (of both black and white) in 10-15 years time is pretty frightening. You only have to look at the Lions this year (and their second XV looked great first half against the Jaguares) to imagine what a team combining the best athletic talent from all ethnic groups in SA might look like in the future. This in turn gives great white talent like van Rensburg a stronger platform in which to demonstrate their ability and to challenge for major honours. [B]vii)[/B] I've seen more ethnic asian players in SA top flight rugby (1 player, Kassim for Cheetahs?) than I have in the UK, despite the UK having a huge asian population. So this post is not a European looking down his nose at SA, as hilariously in Scotland rugby could arguably be more elitist and more of a closed shop than it is in SA. [B]viii)[/B] it helps to remind ourselves of the extent of social inequality that we are looking at by viewing things like this link [url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-37066738[/url] Do we really think a young kid wanting to play rugby, but was born on the wrong side of the tracks in those photos stands any realistic chance of maximising their potential in a situation where there is no political interference? A century of SA history would suggest not. [B]ix)[/B] the situation will get less painful and less open to accusation of "not being fair" once non-white kids of today, who have been routinely given access to top facilities etc begin to filter through into top flight rugby. [I]That is when we will truly see SA sides filled with players based on sporting merit.[/I] I appreciate this will be going against the grain in these parts, but I thought I'd offer up a completely different perspective. In summary, there are issues with SA rugby going forward, but that is mainly around the economic situation to me. I fully expect SA to be a top 4 nation for decades to come despite rising stars like Argentina, England, Japan and Ireland and that you will soar away from Australia and put real pressure on NZ. [/QUOTE]
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