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Jake White on SA rugby
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<blockquote data-quote="Bruce_ma gooshvili" data-source="post: 817439" data-attributes="member: 74121"><p>Its nothing to do with the media (liberal or otherwise, if you read all my posts you'll see I'm no fan of UK state media). It's to do with cold hard facts. The average earnings of a black person are <strong>one sixth</strong> of the average earnings of a white person, decades on from the end of apartheid.</p><p></p><p><a href="http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2012-10-30/south-africa-s-racial-income-inequality-persists-census-shows" target="_blank">http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2012-10-30/south-africa-s-racial-income-inequality-persists-census-shows</a></p><p></p><p>For comparison for those in a western economy, the UK average income is approximately £30,000 per annum. One sixth of that is £5,000. An old age pensioner, who is not working in the UK, will earn more than that (up to £6,000 per annum for basic state pension). There is nowhere near that level of wealth inequality in any other significant rugby playing nation. Clearly I am not comparing like with like, and yes, there will be whites in SA living in poverty, potentially extreme poverty. And yes, the UK is a massive contributor to this disparity.</p><p></p><p></p><p> </p><p></p><p>I'm happy to bow to your superior knowledge of private schools' influence / control over rugby in SA, but I have read remarks from South Africans that ring very similar to those in Scotland (and also in Australia in this forum) that rugby is a also private school thing in SA and that this has limited the spread of the sport and the ability to identify top talent at young ages.</p><p></p><p>I also don't buy the argument that black South Africans aren't interested in rugby or don't have the physical attributes in their genetic makeup. The SA 7s side has lots of blacks, Kenyans play and love 7s, the sport is spreading into nations like Mozambique, Uganda etc. Yes, it isn't XVs, but it is still kids playing with a rugby ball. XVs are spreading globally across many ethnic and national groups, Africa, Europe, South America, Asian. All places that also play football I might add. If they can juggle football and rugby I see no reason why non-white South Africa can't.</p><p></p><p>I do think you make a lot of very valid arguments about why take-up of rugby by non-whites in South Africa is low though. And yes, it's a fair point on ethnic asians, but they come under the "non-white" banner and yes rugby in many countries still awaits its counterpart of an Amla or a Moeen Ali.</p><p></p><p>The best arguments in this thread to me have been your point on the burgeoning black middle class in SA (which might helps solve some of the issues), and also the example given by Heineken of a sort of high profile community outreach program that went into black communities and received a cold shoulder, possibly due to ignorance or suspicion. I fully accept that racism comes in all shapes and sizes, including black South Africa. I just don't accept that it is the main driver behind suggestions of a quota system.</p><p></p><p>Anyway, re-reading the OP, it seems Mr White didn't actually mention quotas and he appears to allude to there being a whole bunch of other reasons for the potential "decline" of SA rugby (down to the dark depths of... fourth in the world, Super Rugby runners up and RWC semi-finalists <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite7" alt=":p" title="Stick Out Tongue :p" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":p" /> ). This is another topic that has veered off topic given the quota issue, so I've taken the liberty of setting up another thread for any more focussed discussions on that topic.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Bruce_ma gooshvili, post: 817439, member: 74121"] Its nothing to do with the media (liberal or otherwise, if you read all my posts you'll see I'm no fan of UK state media). It's to do with cold hard facts. The average earnings of a black person are [b]one sixth[/b] of the average earnings of a white person, decades on from the end of apartheid. [url]http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2012-10-30/south-africa-s-racial-income-inequality-persists-census-shows[/url] For comparison for those in a western economy, the UK average income is approximately £30,000 per annum. One sixth of that is £5,000. An old age pensioner, who is not working in the UK, will earn more than that (up to £6,000 per annum for basic state pension). There is nowhere near that level of wealth inequality in any other significant rugby playing nation. Clearly I am not comparing like with like, and yes, there will be whites in SA living in poverty, potentially extreme poverty. And yes, the UK is a massive contributor to this disparity. I'm happy to bow to your superior knowledge of private schools' influence / control over rugby in SA, but I have read remarks from South Africans that ring very similar to those in Scotland (and also in Australia in this forum) that rugby is a also private school thing in SA and that this has limited the spread of the sport and the ability to identify top talent at young ages. I also don't buy the argument that black South Africans aren't interested in rugby or don't have the physical attributes in their genetic makeup. The SA 7s side has lots of blacks, Kenyans play and love 7s, the sport is spreading into nations like Mozambique, Uganda etc. Yes, it isn't XVs, but it is still kids playing with a rugby ball. XVs are spreading globally across many ethnic and national groups, Africa, Europe, South America, Asian. All places that also play football I might add. If they can juggle football and rugby I see no reason why non-white South Africa can't. I do think you make a lot of very valid arguments about why take-up of rugby by non-whites in South Africa is low though. And yes, it's a fair point on ethnic asians, but they come under the "non-white" banner and yes rugby in many countries still awaits its counterpart of an Amla or a Moeen Ali. The best arguments in this thread to me have been your point on the burgeoning black middle class in SA (which might helps solve some of the issues), and also the example given by Heineken of a sort of high profile community outreach program that went into black communities and received a cold shoulder, possibly due to ignorance or suspicion. I fully accept that racism comes in all shapes and sizes, including black South Africa. I just don't accept that it is the main driver behind suggestions of a quota system. Anyway, re-reading the OP, it seems Mr White didn't actually mention quotas and he appears to allude to there being a whole bunch of other reasons for the potential "decline" of SA rugby (down to the dark depths of... fourth in the world, Super Rugby runners up and RWC semi-finalists :p ). This is another topic that has veered off topic given the quota issue, so I've taken the liberty of setting up another thread for any more focussed discussions on that topic. [/QUOTE]
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