Jalibert on the toxicity of Marcoussis

[Toulousain ex French fan]

Jalibert on the toxicity of Marcoussis, Galthié and his staff during the last AI and why he went home

"I confided to the 'Mental preparation unit'(!!) and Patrick Arlettaz (backs coach of the French XV), and it came back to him (Galthié)," Jalibert told Sud Ouest, adding that he then had "a long discussion" with the coach. "He told me that he didn't have a good feeling about me, that I could go home. So I told him I preferred to go home. I needed a break, a mental break from all that. It's funny because I expressed my discomfort about Marcoussis and it backfires on me. My approach was natural, I did it with a lot of sincerity. We have a cell to share about our frustrations, our discomfort... It is made for that. What I regret is that it came to Fabien's ears because I wanted to wait until the end of the Tour (AI) to talk to him about it. But that's how it is. I left liberated. It was by mutual agreement."

https://www.linternaute.com/sport/magazine/7253846-matthieu-jalibert-a-ete-ecarte-du-xv-de-france-apres-des- propos-que-fabien-galthie-ne-devait-pas-entendre/

 

[Which Tyler]

Gotta say - I'm not seeing any particular "gotcha" that shows mismanagement in the quoted text.
Obviously, there may be far more in the article as a whole that my dodgy french isn't good enough to translate.

I expect all national teams, and most professional clubs to have a sports psychologist on the payroll - whatever title they give to the role.

The only cause for complaint I see above is if the psychologist broke patient confidentiality, and told the head coach what was going on - which may not even be a breach of confidentiality, depending on the wording of various contracts (including that between the player and the psychologist).

It's perfectly possible that Galthié himself can realise that one of his players is unhappy about things, and needing a break, without being informed by the psychologist - so even if Jalibert thinks information has been shared, it's not a "gotcha" that it has. It's perfectly possible for Galthié to realise that Jalibert is unhappy, AND accurately guess what he's unhappy about - some people possess empathy, even if you personally dislike them.

ETA: I assume that Patrick Arlettaz isn't a medical professional, and thus isn't bound by patient confidentiality, and is actively expected to report conflict to his boss. Though this is an assumption.

 

[Toulousain ex French fan]

The point was Jalibert's uneasiness with the regime at Marcoussis, not patient confidentiality. Jalibert is not a patient and doesnt want become one ! that's why he went home during the AI. An unhappy player is not a performing one…Never mind.

Galthié has clearly reached his own ceiling, we all have one, but he doesn't know his. He can keep digging.

 

[Which Tyler]

If he went to the "Mental preparation unit" - that very much sounds like he's a patient.
Beyond that, I still don't know what your point it then - based on the text above. A player has a problem with a coach is hardly newsworthy.

The text above is very much "I had a problem with a coach, I told people this, and the Head Coach got wind of / worked it out for himself"
The regret is explicitly "that it came to Fabien's ears"

Now, maybe stuff got lost in translation, and maybe (presumably) there's more to the article than you translated for us; but from what was posted, it's not about "my discomfort about Marcoussis" it's about "and it backfires on me".

 

[Toulousain ex French fan]

No he’s not a patient, you’re the one using that term. He’s a player in a training camp, not a mental institution. The unit’s name is not great. It is just a structure where players are encouraged to speak up and Arlettaz is a rugby coach, not a doctor, so Jalibert is not his patient.
His rant is both about his discomfort about the regime at Marcoussis and the fact that his exchange with Arlettaz came to Galthié’s ears before he even got the chance to talk to Fabien in private.
I’m posting this to illustrate that Jalibert is not happy with his treatment under Galthié. He has the right to speak up. He should have got a run in the AI and should have at least made the bench v Wales during Ntamack’s absence. He doesn’t want to be just a filler when Romain is out. He had a good world cup, he’s playing well with his club, he doesnt need that shite. Galthié has two world class 10s and needs to manage them but he’s not doing that because his man management is not good.
This is not the first time a leading player has complained about Galthié’s management, the Top 14 is full of them! He’s left a trail of destruction behind him at Toulon and Montpellier, the last two clubs he was sacked from. I’m out.

 

[Which Tyler]

No he's not a patient, you're the one using that term. He's a player in a training camp, not a mental institution. The unit's name is not great. It is just a structure where players are encouraged to speak up and Arlettaz is a rugby coach, not a doctor, so Jalibert is not his patient.

Yes, I am - because of the words used - which may be "stuff lost in translation"
I never said he was in a mental institution rather than a training camp - you're the one using that term (see, it works both ways if you deliberately mis-understand someone).

"I confided to the 'Mental preparation unit' and Patrick Arlettaz", note the use of the words "mental preparation unit" and the "and" between that and "Patrick Arlettaz".
Note my assumption (unchallenged so far - just ignored) that the "mental preparation unit" is just a title for "sports psychologist" - a sports psychologist has patients, and an assumption of patient confidentiality (unless explicitly bypassed in the wording of contracts and consent forms). The use of the word "and" suggests that he went to the "mental preparation unit", and also went to Patrick Alettaz.

His rant is both about his discomfort about the regime at Marcoussis and the fact that his exchange with Arlettaz came to Galthié's ears before he even got the chance to talk to Fabien in private.

From what you're translated for us. He mentions discomfort with Macoussis, but complains about that information reaching Galthié before he's ready for it to.
"rant" is not a fair reflection of what is written above.

A] I'm posting this to illustrate that Jalibert is not happy with his treatment under Galthié.
B] He has the right to speak up.
C] He should have got a run in the AI and should have at least made the bench v Wales during Ntamack's absence.
D] He doesn't want to be just a filler when Romain is out. He had a good world cup, he's playing well with his club, he doesnt need that shite.
E] Galthié has two world class 10s and needs to manage them but he's not doing that because his man management is not good.
F] This is not the first time a leading player has complained about Galthié's management, the Top 14 is full of them! He's left a trail of destruction behind him at Toulon and Montpellier, the last two clubs he was sacked from.
G] I'm out.

A] You can post for whatever reasons you like.
B] Of course Jalibert has the right to speak up - he has free speech (though it's worth noting that that doesn't come with a freedom from consequence).
C] Probably, yes. But he was unhappy in camp, from the above, was offered to go home instead, and took that offer. Quite honestly, the way the quotes in the first post are worded, Galthié is demonstrating excellent man-management skills.
D] Wow - imagine that, a player wants to be first choice not a back-up - I'm sure that's never happened before. If you want to be first choice, be better at the stuff the coach wants, than the guy in possession.
E] This is your opinion, and quite possibly Jalibert's; but if you want to convince me of that, you'll need to find something better than "Galthié identified that one of his players was suffering with their mental health, discussed it with that player, and offered them a mental health break, which the player accepted, and felt liberated by".
F] Galthié has been in the role for 6 years. I doubt that there's a coach out there who's been in a role for 6 years without a single complaint about them, valid or otherwise
G] You absolutely have that right - meanwhile, I have the right to comment or not, as I see fit.


Now, FTR, I neither know, nor particularly care about Galthié reputation or management style - I'm purely commenting on the information available in this thread.
I do think that he needs to win this 6N or lose his job this summer - but that's because this French team (that he built) should be winning more - they win plenty of matches, but have a soft underbelly, and don't have the silverware they deserve. Ultimately, it's a results business, and Galthié isn't getting the results that matter.
He deserves huge credit for building this team, but they risk achieving the square root of ____ all, and if there's to be a change before the RWC, this summer is the last realistic opportunity that gives a new hire time to do their thing.

 

[Toulousain ex French fan]

I'm not responsible for the wording, I just translated the statement as is, but the syntax may be unclear and open to interpretations, this is why I took the trouble of clarifying Jalibert was not a patient.

I'm baffled by your idea of Galthié's « excellent management skills » when they resulted in driving Jalibert back to his club last November. When you know the clubs vs union entranched politics in this country, the reluctance of some of the clubs to release their players, the limited windows of opportunity for training, the very last thing we need is sending home a player like Jalibert. This should be in fact every French selector's nightmare.

And, if as you said « Galthié is demonstrating excellent man-management skills », why would you expect him to lose his job by the summer?

 

[Which Tyler]

Mostly, you've asserted, not explained or clarified.
I've given my reasons already. If you want to know them, you could try reading them.

 

[West Country Wail]

What an absolute melt. Didn't get picked so ran off back to Bordeaux. It's hardly going down the mines.

 

[Toulousain ex French fan]

Mostly, you've asserted, not explained or clarified.
I've given my reasons already. If you want to know them, you could try reading them.

You keep contradicting yourself though. You admitted knowing and caring little about FG's management style (« I neither know, nor particularly care about Galthié reputation or management style »), yet you credit the man with « excellent man-management skills » (based on ??) but you said he could be out of his job by next summer…hilarious.

 

[Which Tyler]

You keep contradicting yourself though. You admitted knowing and caring little about FG's management style (« I neither know, nor particularly care about Galthié reputation or management style »), yet you credit the man with « excellent man-management skills » (based on ??) but you said he could be out of his job by next summer…hilarious.

Not if you read the words I wrote.
TBH, if you're going to question my rationale, whilst refusing to read my rationale, this discussion is unlikely to go anywhere.

And yes, I know you never intended it to, just wanting a chance to take pot shots at Galthié

 

[Toulousain ex French fan]

I read your points and have addressed them. I asked you a simple question based on those points but you can’t answer.
I'm not sure why you jump to the defense of an already beleaguered coach you admit knowing and caring little about. That's odd and you can defend it…

 

[Which Tyler]

I can answer - I have answered, what I haven't done, is defend Galthié

As far as I can see, your questions to me are:
"your idea of Galthié's « excellent management skills »" which is a partial mis-quote (though you got it right later) from my words "But he was unhappy in camp, from the above, was offered to go home instead, and took that offer. Quite honestly, the way the quotes in the first post are worded, Galthié is demonstrating excellent man-management skills." FTR, "the way the quotes in the first post are worded" refers to: "He told me that he didn't have a good feeling about me, that I could go home. So I told him I preferred to go home. I needed a break, a mental break from all that... I left liberated. It was by mutual agreement"
I think it's pretty clear where my view on Galthié excellent man-management skills comes from - it's from the words you typed. But then, you'd know that if you read the words that I had typed. FTR, the above does not strike as "driving Jalibert back to his club" so much as Galthié identified that a player "was unhappy in camp... was offered to go home instead, and took that offer"

"why would you expect him to lose his job by the summer?" as a response to my words "I do think that he needs to win this 6N or lose his job this summer - but that's because this French team (that he built) should be winning more - they win plenty of matches, but have a soft underbelly, and don't have the silverware they deserve. Ultimately, it's a results business, and Galthié isn't getting the results that matter... but they risk achieving the square root of ____ all, and if there's to be a change before the RWC, this summer is the last realistic opportunity that gives a new hire time to do their thing."
Again, I think it's pretty clear what I base my opinion on - to anyone who had actually read the words I typed

And then you have a non-question of:
You keep contradicting yourself though. You admitted knowing and caring little about FG's management style (« I neither know, nor particularly care about Galthié reputation or management style »), yet you credit the man with « excellent man-management skills » (based on ??) but you said he could be out of his job by next summer…hilarious.
When there is no contradictions whatsoever between "identifying a player with a mental health problem, and acting appropriately to that" and "not winning tournaments"

Now, if you have any questions for me that I haven't already answered, feel free to ask them - but please, show me the respect of actually reading what I've written, and maybe reading what you've written, and checking that you're not either missing things I've written, or mis-representing things that I've written - because they don't fit YOUR narrative.

I will add - if I've missed any questions that you've asked me, and that I've failed to answer - then I sincerely apologise - please re-ask them, and I will do my best to answer. What I've just done for this post, is scan back.

On the other hand, if you just want to ignore the words I wrote, twist other words, and deliberately mis-represent me, then to quote yourself "I'm out"

 

[Toulousain ex French fan]

You’re still missing the main point though : the fact that a player like MJ went home is an endictment of Galthié's man management, but you think that's great! In the context of French rugby politics, players like Jalibert are precisely what keeps FG in the job! He shoud never have been in the situation of a leading player wanting to go home…

 

[Which Tyler]

I think that looking after someone's mental health is a good thing, yes.

I was under the impression from the quoted text, that Jalibert's mental health was being negatively affected by Marcoussis, not Galthié - because... of the words used.

 

[Gray_Mouser]

Jalibert on the toxicity of Marcoussis, Galthié and his staff during the last AI and why he went home

"He told me that he didn't have a good feeling about me, that I could go home. "

https://www.linternaute.com/sport/magazine/7253846-matthieu-jalibert-a-ete-ecarte-du-xv-de-france-apres-des- propos-que-fabien-galthie-ne-devait-pas-entendre/

For what it's worth, I think a better translation would be : "He told me he felt I wasn't well, and that I could go home". (Il m'a dit qu'il ne me sentait pas très bien, que je pouvais rentrer chez moi.)

 

[AlRums]

For what it's worth, I think a better translation would be : "He told me he felt I wasn't well, and that I could go home". (Il m'a dit qu'il ne me sentait pas très bien, que je pouvais rentrer chez moi.)

Or

"He told me that he didn't feel very well, that I could go home. So I told him that I preferred to go home. I needed to take a break, to mentally cut off from all that."


"Qu'il" does mean "that he"

 

[Gray_Mouser]

Well no. Jalibert didn't say: "il m'a dit qu'il ne se sentait pas très bien" (which wouldn't make sense ; why would Galthié say he's not well?). He said: "il m'a dit qu'il ne me sentait pas très bien". Mind you, it could also mean "he told me he had a bad feeling about me". But in this context, I stand by my translation.