James Haskell Rant(ish)- fitness, agility and size in modern rugby

Discussion in 'General Rugby Union' started by Orange, Jan 3, 2019.

  1. Orange

    Orange Senior Member

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    For anyone who hasn't seen this, Hask posted a pretty long response to a fan question that clearly got under his skin. There are a couple of screenshots of the initial question on his social media, but the general gist was "why don't you focus on agility and fitness, rather than spending all your time in the gym getting big?".

    Some interesting stuff about his playing weight and it's relation to fitness, as well as how fitness relates to performance:
    https://www.facebook.com/JamesHaskellJHHF/posts/2257105320988719?__tn__=K-R

    (about 2000 words, but worth a skim at least IMO)
     
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  3. living sacrifice

    living sacrifice Senior Member

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    I remember seeing some studies done in Australia about weight training preventing injuries.

    You know Haskell gets lots of stick but I’ve never thought he wasn’t fit enough because of his size?
     
  4. RedruthRFC

    RedruthRFC Senior Member

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    A surprisingly reasoned reply when he's not having an unnecessary number of digs at the guy who asked the question.

    Cliff notes:

    - he only does gym work once a week and trains for strength / power, not size
    - he does much more skills / agility work
    - the heaviest he's been in an England shirt was during the 0-3 tour of Australia
    - he's fitter now than he was on that tour of Australia
    - he's always been one of the fittest at any club he's played for
    - he doesn't say how his strength compares to other players
    - he struggles to be agile, not helps by his age and the injuries he's suffered

    He does a decent job of refuting the points made by the person who asked the original question, but chooses to interpret the question of the English obsession with size as being an obsession with size for size's sake as opposed to an obsession with players being big and strong as opposed to sacrificing a few kgs on the squat bar / trap bar in exchange for an improvement in fitness and agility. He also ignores the question that follows on from his response - if it's not a strength / fitness problem that's preventing him from getting back into the England side, what is?

    Rather unfortunate that he feels the need to say that "almost 99%" of fans have no idea what they are talking about. I can't imagine that any of his pay masters would be too impressed with him biting the hand that feeds him like that.
     
  5. big ginger 8

    big ginger 8 Senior Member

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    Decent read but it's amazing how someone like Haskell who has an interest in strength and conditioning and access to top level coaches etc still believes in somatotypes (when he calls himself a mesomorph).
     
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  6. RedruthRFC

    RedruthRFC Senior Member

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    True. For the most part, it suits his narrative to call himself a mesomorph. It doesn't fit well with the "I also run a health and fitness business promoting smart training and healthy eating" line though.
     
  7. Tigs Man

    Tigs Man Senior Member

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    TLDR version.
    Guy who looks like he prob at best played for his school 1stXV team 45 years ago: Hey Hask your too big mate, you need to lose some mass, I know what i'm talking about because I'll mention a player who retired 11 years ago.
    James Haskell pro rugby player: You wut M8?
     
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  8. Every Time Ref

    Every Time Ref Senior Member

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    Would you be kind enough to explain this for someone (ie me) who has pretty much zero understanding of this kind of thing?

    Since it’s Jan I guess I should do some half-arsed fitness “research”...
     
  9. ratsapprentice

    ratsapprentice Senior Member

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    I don't think most people have any idea of the deeper implication of somatotypes.

    I think the way most people use them is fair enough, so describe an individual's "natural build".*

    *I haven't read the article/post, so I don't know how he was using it.
     
  10. big ginger 8

    big ginger 8 Senior Member

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    They were invented by a psychologist in the 40's who was a believer in eugenics and were meant to indicate temperament. It was done entirely subjectively as well.

    The laws of thermodynamics have a far greater influence on what shape you're in.

    People latch on to them, usually as an excuse for why they can't gain or lose weight even though they've largely been discredited.

    Sorry if that doesn't make sense, I'm trying to do two things at once.
     
  11. Tigs Man

    Tigs Man Senior Member

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    If all my time on the misc showed (Back before it turned into a massive cesspit) is that if your not a meso manmore you might as well not bother working out.
     
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  12. Every Time Ref

    Every Time Ref Senior Member

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    Sort of yes, but also sort of no. By “temperament”, do you mean in the sense of personality? Or is there a meaning I’m not familiar with?

    You might also need to explain the thermodynamic stuff as well if you don’t mind
     
  13. TRF_Olyy

    TRF_Olyy English Arrogance

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    Essentially tall and slim vs regular height and jacked vs short and stocky

    Body shape + metabolism. This guy thought it was genetically predetermined what your body shape would be and there's nothing you can do about it.

    People started labelling themselves and using it like how loonies use horoscopes these days.
    "What's the best leg routine for an endomorph?"
    "Best whey for a mesomorph?"


    Haskell is basically saying he's predetermined to pack on a ton of muscle regardless of how he trains. It's just how his genetics are
     
  14. ratsapprentice

    ratsapprentice Senior Member

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    Calories in vs Calories out is the most important factor by far in weight manipulation.
     
  15. big ginger 8

    big ginger 8 Senior Member

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    Yep meant exactly that by temperament. As far as I remember it was part of something called constitutional psychology and he wanted to link body type to personality, for example be able to call all fat people lazy.

    As Rats says I was talking about calories in v calories out. While there is some research suggesting genetics play more of a role than we've thought (although more in terms of peoples different basal metabolic rate) if someone is overweight it is because they are eating more calories than they burn.
     
  16. Every Time Ref

    Every Time Ref Senior Member

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    I mean that last bit sounds logical to me, no? Some people’s metabolism allows them to put on muscle more easily?
    Isn’t this just common sense...?
    Nuts!
     
  17. TRF_Olyy

    TRF_Olyy English Arrogance

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    Not really,
    Metabolisms are different person to person, but that's the rate at which your body burns calories, not it's ability to grow muscle.
    Serious hypertrophy takes proper, specific, training and certain dietary requirements - it doesn't just happen accidentally from one non-focused weights session a week.
    If anything he should be shedding muscle at a rate of knots considering his, supposed, lack of hypertrophy training and mass amounts of cardio.

    On Brian Mujati's old vlogs, before he deleted them all, he spoke about how he had to do extra weights sessions at home to pack on muscle because the weights done in team sessions were focused on conditioning and not tacking on mass.
     
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  18. Tigs Man

    Tigs Man Senior Member

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    You'd be surprised....

    Plenty of people don't understand the concept of counting calories.
    "But I eat nothing and am not losing weight, My genetics do not give me the privilege to lose weight" proceeds to eat 10 chocolate bars in their lunch break..............
     
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  19. TRF_Olyy

    TRF_Olyy English Arrogance

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    Just @ me next time
     
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  20. The Alpha Bro

    The Alpha Bro Fat Boi

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    Just be an 86kg BM like me, eat what you want but hit the pitch hard.

    Buy my workout plan at www.alphaquads.com, only 47.99 a month. I have worse qualifications than your local PT, BUT steroi.... Ehhh hard work makes me look far better.

    There's loads of people on popular social media muddying the water as to how to get fit in order to cash in on people's ignorance. To be fair to Hask, he hasn't said anything damaging but it is incorrect.
     
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  21. TRF_Olyy

    TRF_Olyy English Arrogance

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    Yeah, but the rubber band business is BOOMING

    Buy my #booty building programme, link in the bio, only £50 for a 6 week plan
     
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