Jonny be gone

Discussion in 'General Rugby Union' started by Bullitt, Oct 31, 2007.

  1. Bullitt

    Bullitt Guest

    http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,12325_2826153,00.html

    An interesting article on Sky Sports looks at the future of the England lineups and includes what <strike>Tweedle-dum and Tweedle-dee</strike> Stuart Barnes and Dewi Morris think are the keys to the future England lineups, predominantly for this upcoming 6 Nations, so how else could the England side pan out?


    <table border="1">
    <tr>
    <td><center>Stuart's XV</center></td>
    <td><center>Position</center></td>
    <TD><center>Dewi's XV</center></td>
    </tr>
    <tr>
    <td><center>Mathew Tait</center></td>
    <td><center>15</center></td>
    <td><center>Ben Foden</center></td>
    </tr>
    <tr>
    <td><center>Paul Sackey</center></td>
    <td><center>14</center></td>
    <td><center>David Strettle</center></td>
    <tr>
    <tr>
    <td><center>Adam Powell</center></td>
    <td><center>13</td>
    <td><center>Mathew Tait</center></td>
    <tr>
    <tr>
    <td><center>Shane Geraghty</center></td>
    <td><center>12</td>
    <td><center>Dan Hipkiss</center></td>
    <tr>
    <tr>
    <td><center>James Simpson-Daniel</center></td>
    <td><center>11</center></td>
    <td><center>Matthew Banahan</center></td>
    <tr>
    <tr>
    <td><center>Toby Flood</center></td>
    <td><center>10</center></td>
    <td><center>Charlie Hodgson</center></td>
    <tr>
    <tr>
    <td><center>Andy Gommersall</center></td>
    <td><center>9</center></td>
    <td><center>Richard Wigglesworth</center></td>
    <tr>
    <tr>
    <td><center>Andrew Sheridan</center></td>
    <td><center>1</center></td>
    <td><center>Andrew Sheridan</center></td>
    <tr>
    <tr>
    <td><center>Dylan Hartley</center></td>
    <td><center>2</center></td>
    <td><center>Lee Mears</center></td>
    <tr>
    <tr>
    <td><center>Matt Stevens</center></td>
    <td><center>3</center></td>
    <td><center>Matt Stevens</center></td>
    <tr>
    <tr>
    <td><center>Simon Shaw</center></td>
    <td><center>4</center></td>
    <td><center>Tom Palmer</center></td>
    <tr>
    <tr>
    <td><center>Ben Kay</center></td>
    <td><center>5</center></td>
    <td><center>Nick Kennedy</center></td>
    <tr>
    <tr>
    <td><center>Lewis Moody</center></td>
    <td><center>6</center></td>
    <td><center>Lewis Moody</center></td>
    <tr>
    <tr>
    <td><center>Tom Rees</center></td>
    <td><center>7</center></td>
    <td><center>Tom Rees</center></td>
    <tr>
    <tr>
    <td><center>James Haskell</center></td>
    <td><center>8</center></td>
    <td><center>James Haskell</center></td>
    <tr>
    </table>



    So, the question remains, are either correct or are they making some strong, high-risk decisions? Who would be the better alternatives and why?




    <table border="1">
    <td><center>Teh Mites England XV</center></td>
    <td><center>Position</center></td>
    <TD><center>Reason</center></td>
    </tr>
    <tr>
    <td><center>Nick Abendanon (Bath Rugby)</center></td>
    <td><center>15</center></td>
    <td><center>Possibly the most dangerous counter-attacking runner in English rugby, he's already put in strong performances in an England Shirt pre-World Cup and is a sure fire choice for XV</center></td>
    </tr>
    <tr>
    <td><center>Chris Ashton (Northampton Saints)</center></td>
    <td><center>14</center></td>
    <td><center>Easily the fastest winger in England, who could well skin Habana at a jog, Ashton currently has a 1.5 try-per-game ratio since converting to Union. Destined to achieve great things</center></td>
    <tr>
    <tr>
    <td><center>Dan Hipkiss (Leicester Tigers)</center></td>
    <td><center>13</td>
    <td><center>When even a Kiwi and an Aussie who poo-poo anything from the NH say an English back looks dangerous, a player must be worth a look.What Tigers fans have known for years will soon benifit the national side.</center></td>
    <tr>
    <tr>
    <td><center>Shane Geraghty (London Irish)</center></td>
    <td><center>12</td>
    <td><center>Fast, inteligent, unpredictable and skillful, Geraghty is evertyhing you could ask for from an inside centre. Should compliment Ryan Lamb well.</center></td>
    <tr>
    <tr>
    <td><center>Leslie Vinakolo (Gloucester)</center></td>
    <td><center>11</center></td>
    <td><center>Another inexperienced League convert who scores tries for fun, "The Volcano" is just what England have been missing since Ben Cohen fell out of favour with the management. Strettle is also a good impact sub.</center></td>
    <tr>
    <tr>
    <td><center>Ryan Lamb (Gloucester)</center></td>
    <td><center>10</center></td>
    <td><center>Imagine Carlos Spencers trickery, Paul Graysons boot, Dan Carters pace and Jonny Wilkinsons work ethic rolled into one complete fly half, then you will have Ryan Lamb. It's amazing he's still waiting for his chance.</center></td>
    <tr>
    <tr>
    <td><center>Danny Care (Harliquins)</center></td>
    <td><center>9</center></td>
    <td><center>The great hope of English scrum-halfs, Care will eventually be rememberd alongside the likes of Greegan, Dawson, Marshall and Edwards.</center></td>
    <tr>
    <tr>
    <td><center>Andrew Sheridan (Sale Sharks)</center></td>
    <td><center>1</center></td>
    <td><center>Needs no explination.</center></td>
    <tr>
    <tr>
    <td><center>Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints)</center></td>
    <td><center>2</center></td>
    <td><center>He's young, talented, experianced and above all else, has destroyed every opposite number he's ever played against. Will eventually be known as the best in the world.</center></td>
    <tr>
    <tr>
    <td><center>Matt Stevens (Bath Rugby)</center></td>
    <td><center>3</center></td>
    <td><center>Again, needs no explination</center></td>
    <tr>
    <tr>
    <td><center>Simon Shaw (London Wasps)</center></td>
    <td><center>4</center></td>
    <td><center>Took forever to get the call from his country, hasn't ever disappointed since answering said call. Eventually will be replaced by Leicester youngster Richard Blaze, but for the 2-3 years until then he'll continue to shine.</center></td>
    <tr>
    <tr>
    <td><center>Louis Deacon (Leicester Tigers)</center></td>
    <td><center>5</center></td>
    <td><center>The shortage of English second row players is a myth, the case is young talent has always been overlooked. Given time, expect to see Deacon and Blaze shine for England much like Johnson and Bayfield in the early 90's.</center></td>
    <tr>
    <tr>
    <td><center>James Haskell (London Wasps)</center></td>
    <td><center>6</center></td>
    <td><center>A player who was only overlooked for the world cup because the media and Dallaglio caused a fuss, he is possibly the most under-rated back-row forward in the world. Will change peoples opinions worldwide of English Forwards.</center></td>
    <tr>
    <tr>
    <td><center>Tom Rees (London Wasps)</center></td>
    <td><center>7</center></td>
    <td><center>Self explanitary.</center></td>
    <tr>
    <tr>
    <td><center>Nick Easter (Harlequins)</center></td>
    <td><center>8</center></td>
    <td><center>Self explanitary also.</center></td>
    <tr>
    </table>


    So, any other thoughts or ideas and why?
     
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  3. feicarsinn

    feicarsinn Guest

    i cant see chris ashton starting for england honestly. theyre unlikely to put in ND1 players and strettle does seem to have cemented his place with some very strong performances. there will also be some calling to keep sackey in

    Edit: lamb may get a look in at ten but the way things are shapng up its more likely to be flood or gerathy it all depends on whos in charge
     
  4. nam97

    nam97 Guest

    On your part Mite, not half bad and I'd agree mostly. Saw Haskell a few times in Heinekin cup replays here for the Wasps and he was brilliant. Especially in the final when he replaced Delalglgilogo, was stunned when he wasn't included in the World Cup squad. Add Easter and Rees in and you've got yourself a half decent back row at the very least.

    Is Vainikolo actually in contention for England selection? I hope he does make it, would do your backline a world of good having some one like him there. Would be the first time you've really had an explosive powerful winger in your squad... would be a great addition.

    What about Cipriani at fullback? I know he's young, and probably one for the future, but he looks very impressive also. You're commentators sure speak very highly of him, and rightly so.

    I have never actually seen two rugby pundits select (near) completely different squads. It is either a bad thing in a sense you have no direction, or a good thing such that you are brimming with world class talent B)
     
  5. Is Harry Ellis dead?
     
  6. Prestwick

    Prestwick Guest

    No, just resting...
     
  7. getofmeland

    getofmeland Guest

    In England Terms I hope so... His slow ball kills us...
     
  8. melon

    melon Guest

    Do your really think The Volcano could do a decent job on the wing at international level?

    (btw, thanx for deleting my previous post in this thread...)
     
  9. In England Terms I hope so... His slow ball kills us...
    [/b][/quote]

    It wasn't all down to him though. It was a slow ball team set-up wan't it. I think he'd be my first choice for a while yet
     
  10. Bullitt

    Bullitt Guest

    In England Terms I hope so... His slow ball kills us...
    [/b][/quote]

    It wasn't all down to him though. It was a slow ball team set-up wan't it. I think he'd be my first choice for a while yet
    [/b][/quote]

    Honestly, a lot of the slow ball was all down to him; With the exact same pack in front of him, Pete Richards managed to supply quick ball for the backs to throw into touck/kick away/"Give it to Jonny"/bugger about with that Ellis simply couldn't, especially when you consider his random passes to the invisable man or his Shaun Perry-esq ability to make a 1 yard sniping run before being stuck at the bottom of a ruck.

    He only played for England because he played for one of the holy trinity, Leicester. Anyone else and he'd never have had a sniff at the white shirt.
     
  11. getofmeland

    getofmeland Guest

    I do actually believe we have better Scrum Halves available, Andy Gommersall proved himself during the World Cup and has done a lot to keep his place, but I would like to see Danny Care be given a chance in an England Jersey. Also Peter Richards, he seems to be able to do the job for Gloucester... Harry Ellis would be a third choice currently. I think England need to look at trying out things in Next Years Six Nations and that includes trying out different players, we need to start building our squad for 4 years not pick old players who won't play in the World Cup... Out with the Old and in with the new generation of players. I also believe that there needs to be some kind of support for Ashton, maybe Rob Andrew should do the job he was meant to do, not the Job he is trying to do... I seriously hope we don't see Ashton being made redundant in December as it will be a huge step backwards for English Rugby again...
     
  12. danny

    danny Guest

    I watch Ryan Lamb every week at Glos and he is no where near ready for international rugby. He is a very attacking player but he is so inconsistent in defence. Also he is very petulant and easy to wind up. I feel he will always be a good club player or an impact sub if you need to take a risk(and i mean a risk).
    By the way the volcano has looked like a good alround player and not just a freight train.
     
  13. I watched Abendanon against Harlequins i think it was a couple of weeks back and i thought he was poor. Loads of sliced kicks, poor runs which resulted in him being isolated. As i dont watch that much of the premiership i cant comment about the younger guys but i think Gomarsall should stay and get rid of Richards, his name is as stupid and predictable as his style of play.
     
  14. Crackdown

    Crackdown Guest

    Harry Ellis is without doubt the SH of choice, he's injured at the moment and not back up to form though. Perry was sadly made a scapegoat for the poor England backrow at the time, he almost picked up MOTM in his first game back: was slightly outdone by a monster performance by the number 8 which brings me to ask the question...

    ... Has everyone forgotten Dan Ward-Smith? Only a year ago he was being hailed as the saviour of the English 8 jersey until his nasty injury, he's just started playing again and expected to be back to full fitness way before the 6N.
     
  15. Ivan Uzubov

    Ivan Uzubov Guest

    wilkinson forever !!! the best player in the world....2 bad for them if they dont wanna him :(
     
  16. Bullitt

    Bullitt Guest

    I think somehow you may have a rose tint on Perry because of which club you support. Really, he's not good. No, really. He's crap.

    As for DWS, while he may be great in the short term, age isn't on his side while there are plenty of younger 8s about such as the Easter brothers, Haskell and Forrester who offer long term soloutions with plenty of time to bed in.
     
  17. danny

    danny Guest

    I think somehow you may have a rose tint on Perry because of which club you support. Really, he's not good. No, really. He's crap.

    As for DWS, while he may be great in the short term, age isn't on his side while there are plenty of younger 8s about such as the Easter brothers, Haskell and Forrester who offer long term soloutions with plenty of time to bed in.
    [/b][/quote]

    Perry should never play for England again . Just look at the difference Gommersall made when he replaced him and just did the basics well. Richards is a great guy to bring off the bench as an impact player.
    When fit Forrester is fit he should be in. Ihave never seen a forward do some of the things that guy can do. I really think he could be one of our greatest players if he is given the chance . With Haskell,Easter , Moody,Lund and Rees England should have a good pacy and balanced back row that can also mix it physically with the best. Also if fit Wilkinson is a cert, he is quite simply the best outside half in the world.
     
  18. Hobb5y

    Hobb5y Guest

    From my perspective i almost completely agree with Dewi's starting 15, I know alot of guys on TRF really like Nick Abendanon and I understand why but I promise you Ben Foden is playing like he's a man possessed at Sale atm, his counter attacking rugby has been a absolute pleasure to watch and his general rugby skills have be so good that he is keeping Rory Lamont from his preferred position of full back (so Lamont says).

    My only real problems with Dewi's 15 is that Hodgson is in there, brilliant player but I think he'll be to old for the next world cup and really we need to blood people like Flood, Lamb Geraghty.

    Other issue is Moody, played well in the RWC but again to old by next RWC. Give Haskell the spot he deserved.
     
  19. Crackdown

    Crackdown Guest

    Where did my last post go?

    His time has come IMO and I've not exactly been that impressed with him in this RWC - he is completely unable to get the backline moving and his kicking has been iffy to say the least (especially when compared to the past). Fitness is only part of the explanation, given the choice of Carter or Sir Johnny I know which one I'd take (hint: he's not English).

    Utter rubbish, may I refer you to the SA game (36 - 0), Perry was replaced at half time and what difference did Gommers make? That's right, none at all...
     
  20. Swansea99

    Swansea99 Guest

    Ok, may not be related, but what about Paul Sackey from Wasps at a England Regular? Sackey did inject pace into the England Backline and kept Habana Quiet during the Final.
     
  21. Bullitt

    Bullitt Guest

    The only reason Sackey had a chance was due to Strettles injury. He's quick, but he's shown he's also lazy and can't defend (see: Tongan trys).
     
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