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June International Test: Australia vs. England [2nd Test] (18/06/2016)

TBeastT

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Australia lack the player depth to adequately replace guys like Giteau, Adam Ashley Cooper, Pocock, Beale etc. I think with those 4 players they are a better side and probably would have beaten England in at least the 2nd test and possibly the 1st.

People seem to forget this fact, also I believe the All Blacks would beat this current England side. England impressed me but not that much, they had no territory or ball in the 2nd test and just relied on Australia dropping it every time on attack.

Good defense, but lack of clinical play and creativity in the Australia's back line was evident and why didn't they take 3 points? Or do some pick and goes off the ruck near the line?

Australia were bad more than England were good in my opinion, so I highly disagree with the "current England team would beat the All Blacks" comments.
Australia camped on our try line for the whole of the 2nd half and we didn't concede a single point. I doubt the ABs defence could've withstood that. Granted, in attack we offered little, but in defence I don't think anyone would deny that that was the best display a teams shown in years. I think instead of hating on England so much and saying the Aussies were crap, it would be nice if people could actually admit that the England team did pretty good.
 

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I strongly disagree with most of this. I know it's England everybody hates us and all that nonsense but it's interesting that so many people struggle to give England any credit. England knew before the game how Australia would play as they stated in many interviews, England set up the team for that and it worked. To say Australia were bad more than England were good in my opinion is frankly not true. I know New Zealand have higher standards to rest of us but If winning a grand slam and tour down in Australia doesn't impress anyone that much with this young England side then nothing will. For what it's worth NZ would beat this England team but It'd be close and it's a shame there isn't a test between the 2 in the Autumn.
Congratulations on winning in Australia. Good timing on a lot of things, Aussies first test series together this year, some crucial retirements and England had time together doing the 'slam' before coming out as well. But in all honesty mate, a slam doesn't really impress me. None of those sides other than France and England have beaten the All Blacks and only Wales back in the 50's have, credit to Ireland though, they are a very tough side. But I look back at the year 2008 when we had an average side by AB standards and we did a 'Grand Slam' without conceding a try and all away games, none of the home and away stuff you lads get the luxury of. So yes, high standards.

But none the less, congratulations on a successful convincing tour, Eddie Jones knows what he's doing and will continue to improve your team, I'm sure you will be #2 for the next few years.
 

Aotearoa_

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International rugby is all about strength in depth. When has any team had their first choice 23 players playing in every test?

But agree on the ABs comment as it stands. Thankfully, England don't play them until 2017 at the earliest. Still, ABs are beginning to lose players to Europe and Japan and even their depth will be tested by that. E.g. Faumuina is rumoured to have signed for Toulouse in 2017. After Franks, who else have ABs really got at tight head? Laulala may not return the same player after his serious knee injury. It only takes one or two injuries to key players like Read, Rettalick, the two Smiths and suddenly the ABs team don't seem so invincible.
With exception to Read, I think we have great depth and cover to our "superstars" and would still beat anyone.

Retallicks injury could be covered with Romano/Whitelock or Tuipulotu/Whitelock fairly comfortably.

Ben Smith can be covered by Dagg/McKenzie

Aaron can be covered easily with TJ/Weber

All those players would make and start for nearly every team in the world and be considered among their best players. I think your point about the AB's lack of depth is very incorrect.

In the front row, there are players like Brendan Edmonds who can come in, Toomaga Allen, Reggie Goodes, it's not nearly as bad as you think.


I think a lot of this talk is attempt to try and humanize the All Blacks a little and attempt to talk their own Nations up to that level.
 
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living sacrifice

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With exception to Read, I think we have great depth and cover to our "superstars" and would still beat anyone.

Retallicks injury could be covered with Romano/Whitelock or Tuipulotu/Whitelock fairly comfortably.

Ben Smith can be covered by Dagg/McKenzie

Aaron can be covered easily with TJ/Weber

All those players would make and start for nearly every team in the world and be considered among their best players. I think your point about the AB's lack of depth is very incorrect.

In the front row, there are players like Brendan Edmonds who can come in, Toomaga Allen, Reggie Goodes, it's not nearly as bad as you think.


I think a lot of this talk is attempt to try and humanize the All Blacks a little and attempt to talk their own Nations up to that level.
Double post, you must be one of those super defensive arrogant kiwis we hear so much about.
 

TRF_Olyy

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Australia vs England game thread,
Let's all talk about how great the All Blacks are.
 

Aotearoa_

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Australia vs England game thread,
Let's all talk about how great the All Blacks are.
So basically these boards go as.

England/other fans make comments directed at the All Blacks.

All Blacks fan defends them but is then told they are arrogant and to not derail the thread.

Yep, seems about the gist of it.
 

TRF_Peat

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Enough of this. Talk about the Australia vs England game here. If people want to discuss a hypothetical between England and New Zealand, start a new thread and take the argument there.
 

Rockradar

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England need to either win next week's game or lose by a close margin to STILL be warranted a comparison to the All Blacks which a lot of posters have done on this thread hence the mention of the ABS.

If however England get thrashed 50 nil by the Australia, then everyone will walk away from England like a crowd parts from a really good street performer and carries on without talking about England at all.
 

Maverick1987

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England need to either win next week's game or lose by a close margin to STILL be warranted a comparison to the All Blacks which a lot of posters have done on this thread hence the mention of the ABS.

If however England get thrashed 50 nil by the Australia, then everyone will walk away from England like a crowd parts from a really good street performer and carries on without talking about England at all.
That won't happen . I think it's more likely to be the other way round . We will continue to pummel the Aussies with our forwards . If we can get our backs going I can see another win next week . 25-11 to England is what I'm betting on . Anyone seen anything about Hopper throwing sand ? A friend mentioned it this morning .....
 

Aotearoa_

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That won't happen . I think it's more likely to be the other way round . We will continue to pummel the Aussies with our forwards . If we can get our backs going I can see another win next week . 25-11 to England is what I'm betting on . Anyone seen anything about Hopper throwing sand ? A friend mentioned it this morning .....
I saw it, here's the video. You decide. It looks fairly harmless in my opinion and he's been cleared.

 
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TRF_Peat

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Doesn't look like any of it hit him, aye.
 

Maverick1987

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I saw it, here's the video. You decide. It looks fairly harmless in my opinion and he's been cleared.

Nothing in that for me . Seems a good call to clear him. He looks to be moving loose grass/soil out his way

Imagine if he got banned ..... Aus would only have 1 more 7 in their back row than us then ! (McMahon)
 
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Aotearoa_

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Nothing in that for me . Seems a good call to clear him. He looks to be moving loose grass/soil out his way

Imagine if he got banned ..... Aus would only have 1 more 7 in their back row than us then ! (McMahon) ��������
Yep, the original angle that was doing the rounds was a birds eye view and it did look very bad from that perspective, but fortunately this angle surfaced and really shows what happened.
 

Jaguares

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That won't happen . I think it's more likely to be the other way round . We will continue to pummel the Aussies with our forwards . If we can get our backs going I can see another win next week . 25-11 to England is what I'm betting on . Anyone seen anything about Hopper throwing sand ? A friend mentioned it this morning .....
I'm not sure about it. 215 tackles is an unhuman number for international level. You need more than a week for a full recovery. This is the kind of game that limited your fitness in a World Cup, like Australia vs Wales in the last WC.

Australia has the fitness advantage for the last game, I'm not sure about their minds. You can't make 400 tackles in 2 games in a row, the English defense will be less tough next week.
 
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TBeastT

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That won't happen . I think it's more likely to be the other way round . We will continue to pummel the Aussies with our forwards . If we can get our backs going I can see another win next week . 25-11 to England is what I'm betting on . Anyone seen anything about Hopper throwing sand ? A friend mentioned it this morning .....
In my mind the 3rd test will rely purely on who's more motivated. For both the series is over, England have won. So the winner will be decided on how much England want a 3-0 win against how much Oz don't want to be white washed by England at home. I'd have thought the 2nd would be the stronger motivator, although after being beaten twice the Oz players may simply give up. If England look to play the same, defensive game as before , they won't win. The mental drive to win the series is what made them so strong in defence, so if that motivator is gone, combined with the physical battering they took yesterday, the game plan won't work. So to win, England will have to play attacking rugby.

With that in mind, the team that plays next week, I would've thought will have to have quite a few players who haven't gotten game time yet, who want to prove themselves, for that extra motivation within the team, as well as some more fast attack based players. So I'd go for:

Vunipola, Hartley, Cole
Itoje, Lawes
Robshaw, Haskell, Vunipola
Care, Ford
Farrell, Joseph
Yarde, Nowell, Watson

Genge, George, Hill
Launchbury, Harrison, Clifford
Youngs, Daly (This time give him so more game time. He's never been on the field for more than 10 minutes in an England shirt)

My logic for dropping Kruis is that for this test we are going to need real physicality, and Lawes beats him in that aspect. In NH rugby, Kruis' more tactical play is excellent, but he hasn't shined nearly as much against Oz.
 
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Rockradar

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I saw it, here's the video. You decide. It looks fairly harmless in my opinion and he's been cleared.

Looks like he backed out. Cameras entered his mind just as he picked it up. Hoopers no saint.
 
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Aotearoa_

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In my mind the 3rd test will rely purely on who's more motivated. For both the series is over, England have won. So the winner will be decided on how much England want a 3-0 win against how much Oz don't want to be white washed by England at home. I'd have thought the 2nd would be the stronger motivator, although after being beaten twice the Oz players may simply give up. If England look to play the same, defensive game as before , they won't win. The mental drive to win the series is what made them so strong in defence, so if that motivator is gone, combined with the physical battering they took yesterday, the game plan won't work. So to win, England will have to play attacking rugby.

With that in mind, the team that plays next week, I would've thought will have to have quite a few players who haven't gotten game time yet, who want to prove themselves, for that extra motivation within the team, as well as some more fast attack based players. So I'd go for:

Vunipola, Hartley, Cole
Itoje, Lawes
Robshaw, Haskell, Clifford
Care, Ford
Farrell, Joseph
Yarde, Nowell, Watson

Genge, George, Hill
Launchbury, Harrison, Vunipola
Youngs, Daly (This time give him so more game time. He's never been on the field for more than 10 minutes in an England shirt)
If there is one thing I've learned living next to Australians most of my life is; They never give up. Even if they can only win 1 game out of 20, they will try win it like it's a World Cup final, they take every little bit of success they can get their hands on..

Cheika seems like the sort of person to try instill this into them as well. So if they lose the 3rd test, it won't be from a lack of trying.
 

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Was trying to dirty Hask's manicure,
 

TBeastT

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If there is one thing I've learned living next to Australians most of my life is; They never give up. Even if they can only win 1 game out of 20, they will try win it like it's a World Cup final, they take every little bit of success they can get their hands on..

Cheika seems like the sort of person to try instill this into them as well. So if they lose the 3rd test, it won't be from a lack of trying.
I'm just not sure that this team has it in them to do that. The fact that in the last 2 tests, England have scored a try in the last 5 minutes says to me that the Oz team just doesn't want to win the game as much as England do, and start to let off the gas at the end. In the 3rd test I can see them going really hard in the first 10-20 minutes, and then losing motivation and the floodgates opening.

- - - Updated - - -

Looks like he backed out. Cameras entered his mind just as he picked it up. Hoopers no saint.
I don't see why anything's being made of this, it's rugby. Even if he had thrown a bit of dirt in his face, so what? It was just a bit of scrum warfare. If people think that's bad, they should see what goes on in the front row...
 
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